Christ First Forum

Does hell mean eternal torment or simply that you cease to exist?

I am an only child. When my parents divorced my mother didn’t think I was worth demanding child support for, and the sperm donor never paid what the divorce judge told him to pay anyway. I’ve had no contact with him since 1983. I wouldn’t give you 2 cents for all of his family combined. My mother’s family is all dead except for a nephew, but I wouldn’t give 2 cents for them either.

My mother has been nothing but a detriment to me since the day I was born- 10 weeks premature. I was supposed to have been stillborn; she couldn’t even do that right.

I’ve lost count of how many times my mother has told people with more than 2 children, “I learn from my mistakes- one husband, one child”.

My mother has lupus and I am her only caregiver. And I myself have congestive heart failure, severe high blood pressure and arthritis that will likely cripple me if I live another 10 years. I took bp drugs for almost 2 years and now wish I had OD’d on them before I decided to stop taking them altogether due to the side effects- that my doctor says don’t exist.

I grew up wanting to be a doctor. My high school grades were very good. But my mother exiled me 600 miles to go to a college that I didn’t want any part of, so I barely graduated with a degree in biology.

When I got out of college I wanted to open a non-profit college prep school for Christian students. I contacted about 250 local churches, but not one of them had classroom space it was willing to let me rent or borrow. I gave up on the idea and was working as a private tutor when my mother’s brother died and I inherited a fair amount of cash. But since my mother handled the paperwork my money went into her bank account. She doesn’t want to spend any of it.

I wanted to use the money to build a school. I could afford the materials but I couldn’t find any church that is willing to provide the necessary land and volunteer labor.

I have looked for a pastoral position, but of the hundreds of churches I have contacted only one asked me to go through any kind of interview process- a freewill Baptist church in Mississippi asked me to fill out a questionnaire. But that church hasn’t even bothered to acknowledge that it received my answers.

Churches where I live won’t answer their phone during business hours, and churches on the net won’t even acknowledge my prayer requests.

I would like to buy some property and set up an organic farm. My father’s parents were expert vegetable growers; my mother’s mother came from a North Carolina farm family. I’ve been around gardening my whole life and I have had my own garden almost every year since 1981. But when I told my mother what I want to do she pitched a fit and essentially says I am too stupid to know how to run a farm. I have the know-how, but I will need help with the physical labor involved because of my health. I cannot find anyone willing to help.

I am in constant physical pain because of my health. I am in constant emotional pain because of my existence. And nobody gives a Darn.

So will I end up in hell if I kill myself?

Does hell mean eternal torment or simply that you cease to exist?

According to scripture the final place for the person who rejects Jesus and does not believe on Him is refereed to as a place of torment and everlasting fire. Revelation 19:20 and Revelation 20:10 and Revelation 20:12, 15, And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life...And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

I am sorry that you have gone through so much, but know this, that God Loves you!

You said:

I am in constant physical pain because of my health. I am in constant emotional pain because of my existence. And nobody gives a Darn.
So will I end up in hell if I kill myself?

I care, and God cares! I too suffer with physical pain and my wife has been battling a deadly cancer for almost three years. That does not mean that no one cares and their is a lot that I have to be thankful for. There is always hope. If you kill yourself and do not have the Lord Jesus as your Saviour, then yes, you will burn in hell.

You said that you wanted to be a pastor. I have been a pastor for many years. May I ask why you would like to be a pastor? I have helped many over the years to get into the ministry. Maybe I can help?

We here at Christ First Forum are a loving group and care about those who come here.

Betteroff...
We're a family in Christ here.

God has led you to CFF - your heart is aching, I can read that in every word you typed.
You do have 'hope' in you heart, that is why you searched and found CFF.
Most of us have been through a lot in our lifetime...and are still going through tough times.

I care, and God cares! I too suffer with physical pain and my wife has been battling a deadly cancer for almost three years. That does not mean that no one cares and their is a lot that I have to be thankful for. There is always hope. - Frank aka Remnant

Don't let the devil fool your heart, you have reason, you have purpose, you found us, and we are here for you...
We don't point fingers, but you will find acceptance, brotherly love which comes from God. God is speaking to your heart, speak to Him with your heart, He cares.

We are here for you Betteroff

We have the absolute best Father one could ever have...He loves you and so do I!! I have been there, felt that way. If you need to talk, just let me know.

Remnant wrote:I too suffer with physical pain and my wife has been battling a deadly cancer for almost three years.

My mother's mother survived cancer. Her father and brother didn't. But in my case cancer would be a blessing of sorts since it would mean my hellish existence couldn't last too much longer. With my family history I expected to end up with cancer of some sort eventhough I have never smoked or used alcohol. But instead I have congestive heart failure due to a defective aortic valve. When I was a child several doctors told my mother that I had a heart murmur- but she didn't take them seriously so nothing was done about it when I was a child- she didn't even bother to tell me about it until my heart failure was diagnosed at age 40.

You said that you wanted to be a pastor. I have been a pastor for many years. May I ask why you would like to be a pastor?

Mainly because I don't have the education or job experience to do much else. I wouldn't mind being a Christian school teacher, but where I live that simply means being a babysitter for brats that cannot or will not do the work required in public school. I saw the idea of a pulpit and a parsonage as a way out of my miserable situation at home. And I thought being a pastor would be a good way to put the money I inherted to good use since I cannot find anything else to do with it.

I have helped many over the years to get into the ministry. Maybe I can help?

Only if you know of any churches that will take me seriously.

BetteroffDead to the world and alive to the Living Word..
I hear and fill your hurt,your anger at injustice..but know for certain none of us have suffered the hurt and pain Christ Yeshua did for us all
Calvary was not an afterthought God planned it from the start,(Jhn.3:16) whosoever will may come and Yeshua will abide in our hearts... perfect love is of Yeshua for He died to set mankind free there on the Cross at Calvary He redeemed my life for me,His love is deeper than the Ocean and wider than any Sea and much higher than any Mountain His perfect love for you and me.. Amen
Hugs and love to you..
"BOD" please don't give up on Yeshua,He didn't give up on you at Calvary,let God make you a vessel for His service..
Remember ,God called Moses to lead out thousands from Egypt,God didn't look for an college grad,and Yeshua told one Tax collector, a Doctor and all the rest were fisherman to follow Him ,He did not ask the educated to follow Him,cuz they thought they already knew the way..Education is a good thing but obedence and availability to God are the best to have...

Remnant wrote:Betteroff,

You said: Mainly because I don't have the education or job experience to do much else. I wouldn't mind being a Christian school teacher, but where I live that simply means being a babysitter for brats that cannot or will not do the work required in public school. I saw the idea of a pulpit and a parsonage as a way out of my miserable situation at home. And I thought being a pastor would be a good way to put the money I inherted to good use since I cannot find anything else to do with it.

First let me say that being a pastor is a calling from God and it takes a life of dedication and sacrifice. Unless you are truly called to do this then I would reconsider.

I take you serious, but it seems that your motive for doing so, might be out of desperation. I am always willing to help those who are sincere and know that this is God's chosen and calling for their life.

I truly feel your pain and sense of hopelessness. I have been there. Please read my testimony here>>>>: frank-s-testimony-t1295.html

What is your name? Mine is Frank! I would like to help and I believe the first step is getting to know one another and developing some type of communication through something in common.

You have talked about dying.
Do you know for sure, that if you were to die today that you would go to heaven?

very true Brother Frank , though we(Christian 's) are all called to serve Him, being all Embass.God desides if Pastor,Teacher,Singer,etc C or. 12: 1-31

Betteroff... Thank you for sharing your situation here... You are indeed in the midst of trials and struggles...streching you to the limit emotionally, physically fiancially and spiritually... you have found here several loving compassionate Christians who share there thoughts, prayers and hearts with you... you are in good hands...

With all due respect and with a measure of compassion may I be so bold as to suggest the question should be what is Heaven?... im no theologian nor a pastor...Brother Frank is our pastoral leader and he is as solid as they come... im just a sinner saved by Gods grace, a follower of Jesus... But it seems that if we recieve the Lord Jesus as our saviour and place our faith and trust in Him, the risen Christ, then we will be with Him forever in eternety... so in contrast, hell is a Christless eternety... whatever that may be like ( Frank sited several verses which gives a taste. )its without Jesus... So my prayer for you is to focus inward on your relationship with Him... He has the power... not you... "Thy will be done, not mine be done".. some things we may have influence over but for the most part we are powerless to change people, places or things...they will always fail you at some timre or another... even churches (which are filled with imperfect broken people trying to become more like Jesus) but we can change how we percieve our lives and circumstances..."Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and lean not on your own understanding... In all your ways acknowlege Him and he will lead your paths straight" Provb 3:5-6.

This may sound uncaring or harsh but "faithfull are the wounds of a friend, but decietfull are kisses of an enemey" prov 27-6

Eternety....trials and difficulties are ours for only a moment in comparison...

hang in there...

Betteroff...

I'm the mother of a mentally disabled son so I totally can relate to sorrows within life...

I've learn to depend upon the Lord totally,and I totally believe God is the One who holds my son together each day...

I just encourage you to trust in HIm, and let HIm have His will over Your life...

When one is seeking TRUE HAPPINESSS, the only place you can find that happiness is within HIM...

God Bless..

I’ve been discussing the issues of eternal torment and annihilationism on the net. I became a Christian when I was 4 years old, but I wasn’t raised in a Christian home; I’ve never been a member of any church and I haven’t attended church servies more tha a dozen times in my whole life. No church has ever offered me any help no matter how desperate I have been sometimes for help. I have no use for organized churches.

But I have always believed that unrepetentant sinners will suffer eternal torment for all eternity.

Now I am not so sure, and this is due primarily to the hostility I have received from people online who believe in eternal torment.

I am not ready to confess a different doctrine. I need to do more research, but I have come to some preliminary conclusions.

1. The body, soul and spirit are all parts of God’s creation. They are all mortal because saying they are immortal is the same thing as saying God cannot kill them. But God is omnipotent and is thus capable of killing them. Any limitation on His power negates His existence. The question of the mortality/immortality of the body, soul and spirit is separate from the question of whether or not an individual’s body, soul and spirit will die.

2. God did not create body or spirit or soul intending for either of them to be mortal. He created living things to have everlasting life. A God that would create living things intending them to die is not a god worthy of recognition, let alone worship. This rules out death before sin and thus makes an old age for the earth unnecessary (no Darwinism and no Gap) but this does not automatically mean a young earth. It only means that nothing in creation died before Satan rebelled against God and Adam and Eve sinned against God.

3. The idea of eternal torment for the wicked is, in a way, a means of seeking revenge on the wicked- who wouldn’t want an Adolf Hitler or an Osama bin Laden to roast in eternal hell fire- and this negates faith in God based on genuine repentance because you are seeking a way to avoid having to grant forgiveness. People who do not genuinely wish to forgive and love their enemies see nothing wrong with subjecting their enemies to eternal torment.

4. Nobody will legitimately serve God because they are afraid of hellfire. You have to serve God because you genuinely want to serve God. You cannot serve God because of any ulterior motive.

5. Baptists are likely the people that have the greatest reliance on hellfire and this demonstrates the un-repentant sinfulness inherent in Baptists; if it takes the threat of hellfire to keep a Baptist on the straight and narrow path, that Baptist seeks to serve God for personal gain and not because of heartfelt desire to serve God. The Baptist is afraid of what God will to do him, when a legitimate Christian has no fear of God.

People who believe in eternal torment for sinners readily use the King James Bible to support their doctrine. But people who believe in annihilationism also use the King James to support their doctrine. They cannot both be right and the King James cannot support both of these doctrines because they are mutually exclusive of each other.

So now the questions arise: What doctrine does the King James teach? Is this the personal doctrine of the translators? Is this doctrine true doctrine?

I understand that you have to accept whatever translation you use as a matter of faith. But I cannot with good conscience accept a translation that may not uphold my personal faith. If the King James Bible’s translators put a false doctrine in the King James, then the King James translation cannot be inspired, innerrant or infallible as I have always thought it was. But even if I can personally interpret the King James in a way that upholds my personal doctrine, I still couldn’t accept the King James if the transltors did not intend for it to uphold my personal doctrine. So is there any way that I could document what the personal doctrine of the translators was so I could determine whether or not their personal doctrine coincides with mine?