Christ First Forum

Yesterday, I came across a post on another Christian forum about the rapture. I bookmarked it so I will have time to read and digest it at another time but before I do that, I wanted to post here and ask for discussion of the rapture.

When I was a new believer, I did not think Christians would escape the tribulation. My Christian friends disagreed with me and we just agreed that when Christ returns, we will go with Him. :)

The post I read yesterday claimed that many Christian leaders are falsely teaching pre-trib rapture. Well, I would like to know what you all believe the Bible says about the rapture. We are in exciting end times. So many things are happening at once. The Lord could come at any moment or we may experience harder times to come, first. "So then, (let us) encourage one another and build each other up, as you (we) are doing." 1 Thessalonians 5:11 :)

Thanks!

The post I read yesterday claimed that many Christian leaders are falsely teaching pre-trib rapture.

Sister, When I get home I will address this in full detail! Let me say that this in it self is false as far as I am concerned and scripture is real clear. You can go to search here and see what has already been posted. This is one of the most controversial subjects in the modern church.

God Bless and see you later.

Servant of the Lord,
Frank

Thank you for the replies! :)

Edit: That was a lot to chew on Jeani. Thanks again. :)

(I should probably make it clear that I am not advocating post-trip rapture myself. However, I am interested in what other believers have to say on the subject, and I look forward to Frank's response on this thread.)

januarie wrote:Thank you for the replies! :)

Edit: That was a lot to chew on Jeani. Thanks again. :)

(I should probably make it clear that I am not advocating post-trip rapture myself. However, I am interested in what other believers have to say on the subject, and I look forward to Frank's response on this thread.)

Jan, I know that you are not advocating any other views other than pe trib and I too think that is a good question.

One of the problems with pre-wrath which is mid trip but with a slant is that it does not fall in line with the biblical timeline of the rapture. Secondly, Most biblical studies will eventually lead one to the true and biblical conclusion that we will be raptured or taken up before the great tribulation. I have had discussions with many post trib, mid trib believers over the years and the one place where they are really confused is on the opening of the seals by Jesus in Revelation 6. This is the beginning of the Wrath and judgement of God that is called the great tribulation, 7 years.

If you will read and study this closely, you can see that we are not under this yet but still in the church age.

There are many great studies on this but I find that The King Is Coming by Dr. HL Willmington who use to be the professor of biblical studies at Liberty University.

The other one is the Fifth Horseman of the Apocalypse by Jesse Hendley.

Tim Lahaye, Hal Lindsey have written some good books on this, but they are not in Chronological order like the two I have mentioned. They are out dated as far as print date, but I am sure you could order one of the other in most christian bookstores.

Here are some other great study tools and sites on the rapture:

http://www.rapturealert.com/sixteenproofs.html

http://www.pawcreek.org/articles/endtim ... reTrib.htm

http://www.utmost-way.com/framep1.htm

http://www.raptureready.com/faq/faq417.html

http://gracethrufaith.com/ikvot-hamashi ... e-rapture/

http://gracethrufaith.com/ikvot/defendi ... ure-again/

Frank, thanks for the great resources! I'm in the mood to do some reading up and studying on the subject, thanks to you and Jeani.

Jeani wrote:Jan, thanks for posting this question because I think it's very important for believers to understand 'why' they believe that the Rapture will happen.

Also, those who do not believe the Rapture will happen, needs to back their thoughts up with scripture.

I don't want believers to be 'rob' of their 'blessed hope' believing there is no Rapture.

I'll try not to be too 'deep',but it's hard to explain without being 'deep',so I pray the Holy Spirit will be the teacher.

The first scripture that came to my mind from this questions was: scoffers

In 2 Peter 3:3 Peter said: knowing this first that scoffers will come in the last days, walking according to their own lusts and saying, Where is the promise of His coming? For since the fathers fell asleep, all things continue as they were from the beginning of creation.'

Later in the verse 10, it talks about the 'Day of the Lord' will come as a thief in the night.

When you do in depth study of the Bible you understand the 'Day of the Lord' begins with the Rapture to end with the ending of eternity.

I believe in Dispensations or Ages to the Bible where an era of time during which man is tested in respect to obedience to some definite revelation to God's will.

Being we are now in the 'Church Age', this age will end because with the Rapture of the Church taken out. Can you imagine how the earth will be once the HS is taken out with the Church? Although I understand through study that the HS will come back to earth to dwell with the two witnesses and 144,000 saved Jews to witness of the Lord.

We have to understand we are living in the Church Age where we receive 'grace (unconditional love), the Rapture that we don't deserve~

When you study the Word, the church is not mention again after Ch 4 until Rev 22:16. Why is this? We're gone!!!!!

Many Bible teachers believe that Rev. 4:4 where the elders represents the Church (1 Tim. 5:17; Ti 1:5) . Crowns throught the NT are rewards for the faithful in church. The elders in Rev. 4 already had their crowns.

How do you explain away 1 Thes 4:15-17 and 11 Cor. 15:54 scriptures where it describes the Rapture?

Paul was talking to the Church--not the Jews as in Eph 5 22-23 as the Church being the 'Bride of Christ.'

The Rapture was also a 'mystery' until Paul reveal it to the Church.

Read John 14:1-3 where the Lord went to prepare a mansion in the sky for us--The New Jerusalem!!!

How do you explain away the 'marriage supper of the Lamb' in Rev. 19' where we come back with Christ?

Two partial examples of the Rapture is the case of Enoch and Elijah who did not died is a picture of the Rapture.

The restrainer (HS) has to be removed before the Lawlessness can be reveal. (2 Thes 2:4-12)

For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through Christ . 1 Thes 5:9.

In Rev. 3:10, God said He will keep you from the hour of testing--that hour which is about to come upon the whole earth for the true Church.

The Church is the Bride of Christ in Eph. 5:22-32

When you study the Word, the Rapture was taught to young believers which mature believers would have a hard time withstanding the Tribulation.

In Mat 28:18-20 Jesus said: I am with you always even to the end of the Age (Church). Remember we're living in the Church Age.

If the Church is to pass through the Tribulation then instead of waiting and watching for the Lord we should be waiting and watching for the Tribulation which is contrary to the teachings of Christ in Mat 24:42-44.

Tribulation is not for the perfecting of the Church Saints. It's nothing to do with the Church. It is the time of 'Jacob's Trouble' in Jer. 30:7 and the judgment of Israel.

Titus 2:13 Jesus' Second Coming will be a Blessed Hope. The Tribulation cannot be a 'blessed hope' right?

First judgment was sin-Christ's finish work
2nd judgment was believers for works (2 Cor 5:10)
3rd judgment is Jews as the Tribulation.

Did not God take Lot and his family out of Sodom as a picture to us as a example of Rapture? Also Noah's flood where he saved the eight. This can also be use as a picture of the Tribulation where God will rapture the Church (Noah's family) out of the Tribulation (flood).

You have to study the 'Times of the Gentiles' to understand the Rapture before Tribulation where Israel is going through divine judgement from Nebuchadnezzar's reign to the Second Coming of Christ.

Daniel's 70th Week where the Church Age will terminate at an unspecified moment to usher in Danielf's 70th Week.

Judgment seat for Church is for 'works after Salvation' while the Judgment seat for unsaved is at the Great White Thone Judgment in Rev 20:11 so there has to be a Rapture of the Church.

Remember we are living in the 'Last Days' so 2 Peter Peter said: but there were also false prophets among the people, even as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Lord who bought them, and bring on themselves swift destruction.

And many will follow their destructive ways, because of whom the way of truth will be blasphemed~

To test these false teachers, one has to 'study' God's Word,and back up what they believe by the Word.

Know God's Word,and you will know the Lord more!

In the beginning was the Word (Christ),and the Word (Christ) was with God, and the Word (Christ) was God.

In 1 John 4 For wahtever is born of God overcomes the world. And this victory that has overcome the world--our faith.

For there are three that bear witness in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit; and these three are one.
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O Lord, I pray Your Word will reach the hearts of those who read these scriptures so they can understand through your sweet Holy Spirit that we are living in the age of grace.

Give them understanding and peace through Your Word.

Teach them with your sweet Holy Spirit to the Truth.

Let us enjoy the thought of Your 'blessed hope' by rapturing Your bride up to the Groom, Jesus.

Sweet, sweet Jesus our Redeemer!

In Jesus' name,
Amen