Christ First Forum

I do not what to say just as yet what church this is..

I would just like to know is there anything in this statement of faith that should be questioned?

All answers are welcomes but Frank and Scott please answer this for me especially..

Thanks in advance.
Please know that Robbie and I are going through this andnot wanting to misinterpret anything.


Statement of Faith





CHURCH COVENANT

As a bond of unity among us, this church accepts for its members the following covenant:

Having been led by the Holy Spirit to receive the Lord Jesus Christ as our Saviour and on profession of our faith in Him, having been baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, we do now most solemnly and joyfully enter into covenant with one another as one body in Christ.

We promise that we will watch over and counsel one another in the spirit of brotherly love, that we will remember one another in our prayers, and that we will aid each other in sickness and distress.

We further agree, by the aid of the Holy Spirit, to walk together in Christian love; to strive for the advancement of this church in knowledge, holiness, and comfort; to promote its prosperity and spirituality; to sustain its worship, ordinances, discipline, and doctrines; to give it a sacred pre-eminence over all institutions of human origin; and to contribute cheerfully and regularly to the support of the ministry, the expenses of the church, the relief of the poor, and the spread of the Gospel through all nations.

We further covenant to maintain family and secret devotion; to religiously educate our children; to seek the salvation of our kindred and acquaintances; to live carefully in this present world; to be just in our dealings, faithful in our engagements, and exemplary in our deportment; to avoid all tattling, backbiting, and excessive anger; to abstain from everything that will cause our brother to stumble or that will bring reproach upon the cause of Christ; and to strive to grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Saviour, that amidst evil and good report we will humbly and earnestly seek to live to the honor and glory of Him who loved us and gave Himself for us.

We moreover engage that when we remove from this place we will, as soon as possible, unite with some other church where we can carry out the spirit of this covenant and the principles of God's Word.





STATEMENT OF FAITH
This Church holds the following statement of faith as being a summary of Christian doctrine whose authority consists only in its agreement with the Word of God.



1. OF THE SCRIPTURES

We believe that the Holy Bible, consisting of the Old and New Testament Scriptures, was written by men divinely inspired and is a perfect treasure of heavenly instruction; that it has God for its Author, salvation of its end, and truth without any mixture of error for its matter; that it reveals the principles by which God will judge us and therefore is, and shall remain to the end of the world, the true center of Christian union and the supreme standard by which all human conduct, creeds, and opinions should be tried.



II Timothy 3:16-17 Isaiah 8:20 I Thessalonians 5:21



2. OF THE TRUE GOD

We believe that there is one, and only one, living and true God, an infinite, intelligent Spirit whose name is JEHOVAH, the Maker and supreme Ruler of Heaven and earth; that He is inexpressibly glorious in holiness and worthy of all possible honor, confidence, and love; that in the unity of the Godhead there are three persons', the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost equal in every divine perfection and executing distinct but harmonious offices in the great work of redemption.



John 4:24 Psalm 83:18 Exodus 15:11 Mark 12:30

Matthew 28:19 John 10:30 Ephesians 2:18



3. OF THE FALL OF MAN

We believe that man was created in holiness under the law of his Maker but by voluntary transgression fell from that holy and happy state, in consequence of which all mankind are now sinners, not by constraint but choice, being by nature utterly void of that holiness required by the law of God, positively inclined to evil, and therefore under just condemnation to eternal ruin without defense or excuse.



Genesis 1:27 Genesis 1:31 Genesis 3:6-24 Isaiah 53:6

Ezekiel 18:19-20 Romans 1:20 Romans 5:19



4. OF THE WAY OF SALVATION

We believe that the salvation of sinners is wholly of grace through the mediatorial offices of the Son of God who, by the appointment of the Father, freely took upon Him or nature; that being conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary, yet without sin, He honored the divine law of His personal obedience and by His death made a full atonement for our sins; that, having risen from the dead, He is now enthroned in Heaven and, uniting in His wonderful person the tenderest sympathies with divine perfections, He is in every way qualified to be a suitable, a compassionate and an all-sufficient Saviour.



Ephesians 2:8 John 3:16 Philippians 2:16-17 Hebrews 7:25

Colossians 2:9 Hebrews 2:18 Isaiah 53:4-5



5. OF JUSTIFICATION

We believe that the great gospel blessing, which Christ secures to such as believe in Him, is justification; that justification includes the pardon of sin and the promise of eternal life in principles of righteousness; that it is bestowed not in consideration of any works of righteousness which we have done, but solely through faith in the Redeemer's blood, by virtue of which faith His perfect righteousness is freely imputed to us of God; that justification brings us into a state of most blessed peace and favor with God and secures every other blessing needful for time and eternity.



John 1:16 Acts 13:39 Romans 5:9 Romans 4:4-5

Romans 5:1-2



6. OF THE FREENESS OF SALVATION

We believe that the blessings of salvation are made free to all by the Gospel; that it is the immediate duty of all to accept them by a cordial, penitent, and obedient faith; and that nothing prevents the salvation of the greatest sinner on earth but his own inherent depravity and voluntary rejection of the Gospel, which rejection involves him in an aggravated condemnation.



Isaiah 55:1 Romans 16:25-26 John 5:40 John 3:19



7. OF GRACE IN REGENERATION

We believe that, in order to be saved, sinners must be regenerated or born again; that regeneration consists in giving a holy disposition to the mind; that it is effected in a manner above our comprehension by the power of the Holy Spirit, in connection with divine truth, so as to secure our voluntary obedience to the Gospel; that its proper evidence appears in the holy fruits of repentance, faith, and newness of life.



John 3:3 II Corinthians 5:17 John 3:8 I Peter 1:22-25

Ephesians 5:9 Galatians 5:16-23



8. OF REPENTANCE AND FAITH

We believe that repentance and faith are sacred duties, and also inseparable graces, wrought in our souls by the regenerating Spirit of God, whereby being deeply convinced of our guilt, danger, and helplessness and of the way of salvation by Christ we turn to God with unfeigned contrition, confession, and supplication for mercy; and at the same time we heartily receive the Lord Jesus Christ as our Prophet, Priest, and King, and rely on Him alone as the only and all-sufficient Saviour.



Mark 1:15 Acts 11:18 Ephesians 2:8 Acts 2:37-38

Romans 10:9-10



9. OF GOD�S PURPOSE OF GRACE

We believe that election is the eternal purpose of God, according to which He graciously regenerates, sanctifies, and saves sinners; that being perfectly consistent with the free agency of man, God's purpose comprehends all the means in connection with the end; that grace is a most glorious display of God's sovereign goodness, being infinitely free, wise, holy and unchangeable; that grace utterly excludes boasting and promotes humility, love, prayer, praise, trust in God, and active imitation of His free mercy; that it encourages the use of means in the highest degree; that it may be ascertained by its effects in all who truly believe the Gospel; that it is the foundation of Christian assurance; and that to ascertain it with regard to ourselves demands and deserves the utmost diligence.



II Timothy 1:8-9 II Thessalonians 2:13-14 Exodus 33:18-19

II Timothy 2:10 II Peter 1:10-11



10. OF SANCTIFICATION

We believe that sanctification is the process by which, according to the will of God, we are made partakers of His holiness; that it is a progressive work; that it is begun in regeneration; and that it is carried on in the hearts of believers by the presence and power of the Holy Spirit, the Sealer and Comforter, in the continual use of the appointed means especially the Word of God, self-examination, self-denial, watchfulness, and prayer.



I Thessalonians 4:3 I John 2:29 Romans 8:5 Philippians 2:12-13



11. OF THE PERSEVERANCE OF SAINTS

We believe that such only are real believers as endure unto the end; that their persevering attachment to Christ is the grand mark which distinguishes them from superficial professors; that a special Providence watches over their welfare; and that they are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation.



John 3:31 1 John 2:19 Romans 8:28 Philippians 1:6



12. OF THE HARMONY OF THE LAW AND THE GOSPEL

We believe that the law of God is the eternal and unchangeable rule of His moral government; that it is holy, just, and good; that the inability which the Scriptures ascribe to fallen men to fulfill its precepts arises entirely from their love of sin; and that the one great end of the Gospel is to deliver them from this inability and to restore them, through a Mediator, to unfeigned obedience to the holy law and of the means of grace connected with the establishment of the visible church.



Romans 3:31 Romans 7:12 Romans 8:7-8 Romans 8:2-4



13. OF A GOSPEL CHURCH

We believe that a visible church of Christ is a congregation of baptized believers, associated by covenant in the faith and fellowship of the Gospel, observing the ordinances of Christ, governed by His laws, and exercising the gifts, rights and privileges invested in them by His Word; that its only scriptural officers are bishops or pastors and deacons, whose qualifications, claims, and duties are defined in the Epistles to Timothy and Titus.



Matthew 18:17 I Corinthians 1:1-13 I Corinthians 11:2

Matthew 28:20 Acts 2:41-42 I Timothy 3 Titus 1



14. OF BAPTISM AND THE LORD�S SUPPER

We believe that Christian baptism is the immersion in water of a believer, in the name of the Father, and Son, and Holy Ghost to show forth in a solemn and beautiful emblem our faith in the crucified, buried, and risen Saviour with its effect in our death to sin and resurrection to a new life. We believe that the Lord's Supper, in which the members of the church by the sacred use of the bread and wine are to commemorate together the dying love of Christ, is to be preceded always by solemn self-examination.



Acts 8:36-39 John 3:22-23 Matthew 28:19 Romans 6:4

Acts 2:41-42 I Corinthians 11:26 I Corinthians 11:28



15. OF THE LORD�S DAY

We believe that the first day of the week is the Lord's Day and is to be kept sacred to religious purposes by abstaining from all secular labor, except works of mercy and necessity; by the devout observance of all means of grace, both private and public; and by preparation for that rest which remaineth for all the people of God.



Acts 20:7 Psalm 118:24 Isaiah 58:13-14

Hebrews 10:24-25 Hebrews 4:3-11



16. OF CIVIL GOVERNMENT

We believe that civil government is of divine appointment for the interests and good order of human society; and that magistrates are to be prayed for, conscientiously honored, and obeyed, except only in things opposed to the will of our Lord Jesus Christ, who is the only Lord of the conscience and the Prince of the kings of the earth.



Romans 13:1-7 Matthew 22:21 Acts 5:29 Matthew 23:10



17. OF THE RIGHTEOUS AND THE WICKED

We believe that there is a radical and essential difference between the righteous and the wicked; that such only as through faith are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus and sanctified by the Spirit of our God are truly righteous in His esteem, while all such as continue in impenitence and unbelief are in His sight wicked and under the curse; and that this distinction holds among men both in and after death.



Malachi 3:18 Romans 1:17 I John 5:19 Luke 16:25



18. OF THE WORLD TO COME

We believe that the end of this age is approaching.



I Peter 4:7



We believe in "That blessed hope" the personal, imminent return of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.



Acts 1:11 I Thessalonians 4:13-18



We believe in the bodily resurrection of the just and of the unjust, the everlasting blessedness of the saved, and the everlasting punishment of the lost.



Acts 24:15 Matthew 24:31-46 Revelation 22:11

Hi Anna, First let me say that the first thing that happened with me when I read this was red flags started popping up.

The bible tells us to let our yes be yes and our no's be no's. Our covenant is with God and not man. The only requirement for membership should be that one has publicly with there mouth confessed Jesus as there Lord and Saviour. Membership in the church is not based on a bunch of vows to one another, but based on the vow that we have made to God.

The way some of these statements of faith are worded leads me to believe that this church is trying not to reveal what they really believe.

I would always be leery of any church or group that tries to make you sign a covenant. Our testimony and our life should be enough. Then if the fruit does not bear that out then that is another story.

Why do you not want to share what kind of church they are? I would like to know because this is really a very long list of covenants and statements through a lot of fancy wording.

Sounds like a very controlling church and most of the times, those type of churches are cultic in nature.

I would also like to ask Dono for his input or anyone else on this forum.

Thank you oh thank you Frank so very much..

I know God led me to ask this question on the board for you and scott to especially answer.

This is not any church that is close to me.. This is a church that my friend Donna's son attends.

The word cult came up with 3 different people with me being one of the 3.

Please others I need all the help I can get for this. If we can go through this with a fine tooth comb
it would be appreciated. My friend Donna was very overwhelmed today with information that was given to her.

So what I ask now is that when answering try to make a list of what is wrong with this statement and why
it is not right.

When I read it before Robbie a few came up to me and that is what prompted me to come to this forum with it.

"and to contribute cheerfully and regularly to the support of the ministry, the expenses of the church, the relief of the poor, and the spread of the Gospel through all nations."
This doesn't sound like tithing to me..it sounds almost like a disguised command.

"We further covenant to maintain family and secret devotion" My question with this is are they saying they don't or can't talk about their love of Jesus? Why is it supposed to be secret?

These are just a few examples of what I saw..I know there are plenty more and would like to get this whole thing broken down so that when we bring this to her sons attention he won't be able to say this is not of any cult of any kind.

I also explained to her that people have a tendency and to be very careful of misinterpreting the Scriptures. They will make it sound like they know what they are talking about.

So please any and all that can help she has more then her sons salvation at stake.
She's doing her best as a single Mom of 5. Robbie and I are only 2 people that she will speak with
about this. Thank you so much again Frank.

Anna, I concur with Frank and Carmela on this issue, sounds like a lot of whitewashing going on. Anytime I see language like this, it definitely throws up some red flags. Sounds like my brother spouting off his legal mumbo jumbo.

Am I missing one of our members? Who is Scott?

Thank you Carmela and Wayne for your input. It means a lot especially when a Mom would never want any of her children no matter at what age to be part of a cult.

All the information that I may provide to her will always be of the greatest help.

And Wayne Scott is Pastor Rogue.

If there is anyone else here that can now give me the specifics of what they see it will appreciated.

15. OF THE LORD�S DAY

We believe that the first day of the week is the Lord's Day and is to be kept sacred to religious purposes by abstaining from all secular labor, except works of mercy and necessity; by the devout observance of all means of grace, both private and public; and by preparation for that rest which remaineth for all the people of God.
IS A RED FLAG TO ME....

My husband is a Christian,but his job 'requires' him to work on two Sundays a week. Now there's no doubt in my mind that my husband is going to heaven while those who sit on the pew every church service will not....I don't agree with this...

14. OF BAPTISM AND THE LORD�S SUPPER

We believe that Christian baptism is the immersion in water of a believer, in the name of the Father, and Son, and Holy Ghost to show forth in a solemn and beautiful emblem our faith in the crucified, buried, and risen Saviour with its effect in our death to sin and resurrection to a new life. We believe that the Lord's Supper, in which the members of the church by the sacred use of the bread and wine are to commemorate together the dying love of Christ, is to be preceded always by solemn self-examination.

Our church accepts 'anyone' who has a profession of faith to be included in our Lord's Supper. It doesn't just pertain to our church.

10. OF SANCTIFICATION

We believe that sanctification is the process by which, according to the will of God, we are made partakers of His holiness; that it is a progressive work; that it is begun in regeneration; and that it is carried on in the hearts of believers by the presence and power of the Holy Spirit, the Sealer and Comforter, in the continual use of the appointed means especially the Word of God, self-examination, self-denial, watchfulness, and prayer.
Means 'set apart' to me...

To me, these covents are trying to be the Holy Spirit instead of allow God to be the Holy spirit.

Too many covenants to agree with,and I never like to agree with a covenant myself....

I would think 'twice' before I join a church like this...

Hope you find the answers you are seeking...

I simply agree with my Bros. and Sisters here. Too many red flags. The first red flag I saw was that among hundreds of words, Jesus was mentioned only once. I didn't read the provided verses, but I believe that if Jesus is lifted up, He should be mentioned many many times.

Then it talks about "maintaining family and secret devotions". Secrets belong in secret societies such as LDS, Watchtower, and Masonic Lodge, or Free Masons'.

Also, "We moreover engage that when we remove from this place we will, as soon as possible, unite with some other church where we can carry out the spirit of this covenant and the principles of God's Word." First time I ever saw something like this. I sense strange motives from the head honcho.

If I could, I would attend this Church a few times while praying for Spiritual Discernment before I could go any further.
In these last days, it is extremely imporant to be aware of the many false doctrines and hirelings that are always so eager to get our eyes off of Jesus, and His Kingdom that is
"Not of This World." We are 'new creatures in Christ' and need to have our radar up and running so that we can walk with Jesus in the storms of life.

Remember that we are to have the "faith of a child" , so I always trust in the simple words of Jesus to stay away from modernisms and "priviledged information."

another red flag... "We promise that we will watch over and counsel one another in the spirit of brotherly love, that we will remember one another in our prayers, and that we will aid each other in sickness and distress."

We are to counsel each other in the Love of God according to His Word. Humanism is "brotherly love" ESPECIALLY when counsel does not include being guided by the Holy Bible.

Modern Churches are blending humanism with political correctness, and compassion. Beware. It is a false gospel.

Anna, Would you please share with us this churches name and website if they have one. WE want to make sure that we get all the information about this church so that we can rightly judge who they are and what they teach and believe. Right now we are only making a judgement based on what you have posted. Doing this would only help in testing the spirit of things.

Well it started out like this. Anna asked me if I knew what an Episcopal church was. . I told her I think it is a mixture of Christian and Catholic teachings. But according to our friend who came over asking me about Baptist Church.

In General I told her Baptist is supposed to be Christ Centered God Loving Bible believing and teaching Church all by the written words. But I did tell her I have heard of some wacky so called Baptist Church that I would not label it a true Baptist Church. They teach so differently I would not call it Baptist but some other form of teaching. For I know many Baptists. And I myself would be called a Baptist closest to what I believe but first I am a Christian before anything..

This statement of faith is not of any Baptist Church that neither I have attended or friends who are Baptist.

These writings are what I would call fancy pitching. A pitcher in baseball throws the ball fast for one. He changes what style of pitch to approach each batter. The Ball appears to be coming at them but is moving in different directions which is what The pitcher is trying to do to strike out his opponent.

This Church mentioned here sounds like a victim Church of those whom don’t know The Word all that well. I agree mostly with Doug on what red flags I found in this. The word secret was what got my attention the most. And the next was when we are removed we unite with A Church. Hmm what is that suppose to mean and as Doug said there is hardly any mention of Jesus. A true Baptist Believer would emphasize Jesus all the time just like I do for he is the first and the last the Alpha and Omega. He is He was and He the Lord will always be. Unto Moses He said to him “I am” unto Phillip Jesus said to him before Abraham “I am” God is I am He is The God of all eternities past and all of eternities future. And Christ Jesus was the unfolding plan to bring mankind to A Holy God sending his perfect Son Jesus. When Jesus was young he obeyed his parents. Jesus always and always listened to The Father. In dwelt in Jesus was the Holy Spirit. This is why John the Baptist says. Indeed I baptize you with water but He that is after me I am not worthy to carry his Sandals. He will baptize you with Fire and Holy Spirit for this is the same Jesus of Bethlehem of Judea that was conceived by The Holy Spirit. This is possible because Jesus is God the Son of The Triune being. The only being that is one yet of 3. For Jesus said if you have seen me you have also seen The Father. I and the Father are one.

Ok Frank here the the website for this church that is in question..

http://www.templebaptisttr.org/

And I want to make it clear that I have no intention of have any doings with this church.

Like I stated before I am trying to help my friend whose children are affiliated with this church.

Thank you again and still praying for my answers to this.

Hi Anna, After looking over there website and now that I know that they are Independent Baptist, I understand more of what they believe and adhere to. They are your typical Independent Baptist and most of them do have covenants. They have a tendency to be very legalistic and dogmatic about certain things, such as dress codes etc. They Keep things such as the operation of the church and what goes on with the deacons and elders secret. I would not concider them to be a cult, but can be very controlling and legalistic in nature,

Bible Bear, Amen! You mentioned the Episcopal Church. Last year our little band played worship music for them once a month. The Pastor there is a good personal friend of ours, and he has been there for 35 years. As you may know, gays have been voted in to be allowed to be in offices of ministry in the Episcopal Church. Our Pastor friend is very conservative, and voiced his Biblical stance against gays allowed in the Priesthood.... well, he was immediately labeled in a derogatory way, and almost lost his retirement. Since then, our band no longer plays worship for the Episcopal Church, and the Pastor has retired. I was raised as a Missouri Synod Lutheran, very simular to the Episcopals, and the Lutherans are doing the same thing. Humanism......
I stopped being a member of the Lutheran Church in 1967. Officially, I have no membership to any worldly church. We regularly attend the Assembly of God, Vineyard, and Calvary Chapel.
We are also faithful in our tithes. Our music ministry takes us to Celebrate Recovery, Rescue Gospel Missions, Christian Coffee Houses, and other Christian gatherings where Jesus is worshipped.
You can listen to a few of our songs here at "Inspirational Videos" 'Riders On The Storm'

Frank, back in the early 70s I attended an Independant Baptist Church for 7 years. All in all, a good place, but legalistic. A young member, who I believe was filled with the Holy Spirit, got up to the front of the Church, and told everyone that the Church was wonderful in knowledge, but lacking in love. He was telling the truth. He was rebuked by the elders, and told to take his seat.
He left the building weeping, and never went back. I still communicate with friends there, and things haven't changed much. A fine elderly gentleman there, one of the elders at that time, agreed with the young man about the Church's lack of love. He was an amazing man, from Norway, filled with the Holy Spirit, MUCH older than everybody, and used his Spiritual gifts profusely, all to edify the Body. He and his family were wonderful Christians. He grew up as a mountain climber in his youth, shouting praises to God on the mountain tops above the fjords in Norway.
When he would stand and worship our Jesus, he would shout, just as if he was there, on the mountain tops! I always wanted to be like him. He used to 'sneak off' on occasion to the Pentecostal Churches in town.....