Christ First Forum

[Remnant]

Rick Warren hosts presidential forum Sat. night
Jim Brown - OneNewsNow - 8/15/2008 6:00:00 AM

Tomorrow night (Saturday), White House hopefuls Barack Obama and John McCain will be fielding questions from evangelical mega-church pastor Rick Warren in a presidential forum at his California church.

The "Saddleback Civil Forum on Leadership and Compassion" will feature each candidate talking with Pastor Warren separately for one hour. Warren says he plans to pose questions on issues such as poverty, HIV/AIDS, global warming, and human rights.

"Both John McCain and Barack Obama, I have known for a long time, before either of them began to run for president. They are very different," Warren explains. "They have different philosophies of leadership, different philosophies of where government should be and should be headed -- and I thought, 'You know what, these guys will probably trust me to ask the questions that let them say who they really are.'"

Pastor Warren says he will also have Obama and McCain discuss their religious faith. "The leader who says, 'I'm going to take my worldview and just put it on the shelf when I make decisions,' is either an idiot or they're lying, because you can't do it," the well-known Christian author adds. "All of your decisions are based on what you value, what you believe in life. And so I think it's important to find out what these guys really believe."

American Family News and OneNewsNow.com will be providing in-depth coverage following the forum.

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Election2008/ ... ?id=212852

[Remnant]

This should be interesting! I will try to catch it and then give some thoughts on it latter on the forum!

[Carmela]

I will watch this also. At first I wasn't going to because I figured that it would be a circus of the blind leading the blind but it might be interesting to hear what ole Rick has to say. . . not to mention Obama!

[Jeani]

I don't mean to sound sooo ugly, but to me, Rick Warren is such a 'false teacher.'

One has to ask theirself: "How did he manage to get both of these candidates to be at his church?"

Probably because Warren is a member of the 'One World Church Council',and Satan himself.

To have someone like Obama who believes in killing babies that survive abortions is a disgrace.

To think Billy Graham, who has been involved with every president hopeful, was turned down by McClain; yet he has time for Rick Warren.

Sorry guys, but that's how I feel.

Wish I didn't.

[Remnant]

I don't mean to sound sooo ugly, but to me, Rick Warren is such a 'false teacher.'

One has to ask theirself: "How did he manage to get both of these candidates to be at his church?"

Probably because Warren is a member of the 'One World Church Council',and Satan himself.

To have someone like Obama who believes in killing babies that survive abortions is a disgrace.

To think Billy Graham, who has been involved with every president hopeful, was turned down by McClain; yet he has time for Rick Warren.

Sorry guys, but that's how I feel.

Wish I didn't.

Jeani, I agree that is why I am going to try to watch this. It could reveal a lot about what is in store for America and our nation.

[Jeani]

Frank,

I knew you did,but I still had to post for those who don't know Rick Warren.

This information is long,but informative to those who don't know Rick Warren.
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www.crossroad.to/articles2/05/peace-un.htm

Warren's P.E.A.C.E. Plan & UN Goals - Part 1

The Emerging Global 'Church'

by Berit Kjos, August 2005

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"The first Reformation was about beliefs. This one needs to be about behavior.… We’ve had a Reformation; what we need now is a transformation." [1] Rick Warren

"The transition... to a culture of peace is a process of individual, collective and institutional transformation."[2] UNESCO Culture of Peace Programme

"Citizenship for the next century is learning to live together. The 21st Century city will be a city of social solidarity.... We have to redefine the words... [and write a new] social contract." [3] Federico Mayor, former head of UNESCO.


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"A sea change of transitions and transformations is birthing a whole new world," wrote Dr. Leonard Sweet, whose books are often quoted in Rick Warren's Ministry Toolbox . "God is birthing the greatest spiritual awakening in the history of the church.... Are you going to show up."[4]



If you love truth, you may want to say no! For in his book Soul Tsunami, Dr. Sweet, a popular leader of the Emerging Church, tells us to flow with the currents of change and leave God's unchanging gospel behind. "Postmodern culture is a change-or-be changed world," he continues. "Reinvent yourself for the 21st century or die. Some would rather die than change." [4]



Would Rick Warren agree? Probably, since he wrote this glowing endorsement for the front cover of Sweet's book: "Soul Tsunami shows us why these are the greatest days for evangelism since the first century!"



What kind of evangelism does Warren envision? Would it be based on God's Word or on "good" works? Apparently, the latter. In a world that has traded Biblical absolutes for changing values and feel-good experiences, God's "divisive" truths face a rising tide of hostility. But few will argue against helping the poor and sick. Perhaps that's why Pastor Warren keeps repeating this statement: “The first Reformation was about belief; this one’s going to be about behavior.”[5]



The new focus is on unity -- a worldwide oneness reflected in the growing union between the East and West. Leonard Sweet's online book, Quantum Spirituality, sheds some revealing light of the envisioned global "church" for the 21st century. In his view, the offense of the cross has been replaced with a passion for interfaith peace and possibility thinking. To illustrate this point, Dr. Sweet quotes Thomas Merton, the popular Catholic author who popularized mysticism and died in Asia searching the depths of Tibetan Buddhism: 'We are already one. But we imagine that we are not. And what we have to recover is our original unity.'"[6]


Seeking that illusive solidarity, today's success-driven church leaders are rushing into the postmodern age of flexible "truth" and relational pleasures. Unbounded by any solid anchor in God's unchanging Word, they dash forward -- hand in hand with the world -- toward an imagined future attainable through practices long hidden in secret societies and Eastern religions. These include meditative rituals, dialectical synthesis and systems thinking. Add service learning to the last two and you have the transformational strategies first tested by Communist tyrants, then incorporated into the UN - U.S. education system, which intentionally undermined factual, rational learning and established the postmodern ways of thinking.[7]



We need to understand this amazing worldwide revolution -- and the subtle compromises caused by today's pragmatic "Christian" alliances. Therefore, the next two articles in this series will look more closely at the social manipulation behind "community service" and "lifelong learning" -- two programs driven by global standards, continual assessments and remediation. Meanwhile, you can find helpful background information on the following pages:

Molding Human Resources for the Global Workforce

Bush, Shultz, Gorbachev and Soviet Education

Spirit-Led or Purpose-Driven, Part 4: Dealing with Resisters

Character Training For Global Citizenship

But first, let's examine Rick Warren's celebrated P.E.A.C.E. Plan and its links to the United Nations.



Like most other UN documents, its Millennium Goals sound kind and compassionate. They are designed to appeal to noble instincts and caring hearts -- and they do! That's why nations, corporations, organizations and churches have joined the global campaign. Who would disagree with these eight lofty goals?

1. Eradicate extreme poverty and hunger.

2. Achieve universal primary education.

3. Promote gender equality and empower women.
4. Reduce child mortality.
5. Improve maternal health.
6. Combat HIV/AIDS, malaria and other diseases.
7. Ensure environmental sustainability.

8. Develop a global partnership for development.[8]

Of course, there's more to this list than nice-sounding words. The motivational vision of a worldwide welfare system may have captured hearts around the world, but it actually serves the grandiose aims of socialist change agents who have little concern for human suffering. (Just look how government leaders are treating the victims of hurricane Katrina!) Yet, no other program has more effectively linked the evangelical church to the UN management system, which, from its birth, declared war on Biblical truth and values.[9] And no other program has more effectively drawn Christians into a process designed to manipulate the masses, undermine traditional values, silence resisters, synthesize beliefs, trade individual thinking for collective thinking, and train global citizens to serve the "greater whole."[10]



An interview titled, "Pastor [Warren] lays out a global vision," summarizes parts of that plan:

Q: Your book is a mega-seller and there are 82,000 names on Saddleback's church rolls. What's next?

Warren: "In the 21st century we are going global and mobilizing the American church to help internationally. ... President Kagame will welcome us to Rwanda for a joint project among the government, business and the church....

Q: How will Saddleback tackle these huge problems?

Warren: With our PEACE plan.... P is for plant a church or partner with an existing one in every village. We'll work with everyone who wants to help. I'll work with an atheist who wants to stop AIDS. E - equip local leaders. A - assist the poor. C - care for the sick. And E - educate the next generation. ...

Q: What is your greatest hope for all this?

Warren: A second Reformation. The first one was about belief. This one will be about deeds."[11]

Compare this celebrated P.E.A.C.E. Plan with the United Nation's Millennial Goals. Keep in mind that both purpose-driven churches and their strategic leadership programs require training in mind-changing processes and assessment technologies that support the UN vision for human resource development around the world.[12]

Warren's PEACE Plan
Millennium Development Goals:

1. Was: Plant churches

Changed to: Promote Reconciliation
#8. Develop a global partnership for development. (The leadership training for purpose-driven churches parallels the dialectic process, Systems Thinking and team development prescribed by various UN agencies involved in human resource development.)
2. Equip servant leaders #8. Develop a global partnership for development. Actually "Lifelong Learning" has been the major UNESCO education goal since the UN agency was founded.
3. Assist the poor #1. Eradicate extreme poverty and hunger
4. Care for the sick #4. Reduce child mortality
#5. Improve maternal health
#6. Combat HIV/AIDS, malaria and other diseases
5. Educate the next generation #2. Achieve universal primary education
The implied aims of UN Millennium Goals #3 and #7 are certain to be included in each of Warren’s five programs – especially in P, E, A and E.
#3. Promote gender equality and empower women
#7. Ensure environmental sustainability

Now, let's look more closely at each P.E.A.C.E. Plan objective:

1. Plant churches. The first point sounds good. But what will those church plants look like? Will they be clones of Saddleback Church in California -- or of thousands of other churches that follow the purpose-driven model?



Not exactly. Today's change agents will carefully adapt their transformational strategies to each new cultural setting. But at the heart of this global revolution we see the same key elements: Total Quality Management, psycho-social leadership training, promotion of a positive (compromised) gospel and a permissive (feel-good, non-judging) God, continual high-tech assessments and remediation, and the dialectic process operating through facilitated small groups.



The mission field is the entire world. As Pastor Warren says,

"'Billions of people suffer each day from problems so big no government can solve them.... 'The only thing big enough to solve the problems of spiritual emptiness, selfish leadership, poverty, disease, and ignorance is the network of millions of churches all around the world....

'The Scripture shows us that Jesus shared the Good News, trained leaders, helped the poor, cared for the sick, and taught the children... 'Our P.E.A.C.E. Plan will just do the five things Jesus did while he was here on earth.'"[13]

But Pastor Warren's comparison with Jesus couldn't be more misleading. Jesus never used the psycho-social strategies or the manipulative management systems that drive today's social and spiritual transformation!



Warren's initial thrust is into Africa, where the P.E.A.C.E. Plan will fit well. It already has a foothold in Rwanda, where the 1994 genocide against the Tutsi minority shocked the world. But according to Time Magazine, its president Paul Kagame had not been friendly to Biblical Christianity:

"Kagame has repeatedly stated his disdain for religious organizations. Thus a buzz went up in Kigali's Amahoro Stadium last month when Kagame allowed Rick Warren... to throw an arm over his shoulders and 'pray for the President.'... Kagame has committed his government to cooperation in a five-to-seven-year self-sufficiency project staffed by Rwandan volunteers but initiated, advised and at least partly funded by Warren's network of 'purpose-driven churches.' Warren talks of turning Rwanda into 'the first purpose-driven nation.'"[14]

Do you wonder why a somewhat anti-Christian African president would enter into such an agreement? Kagame answered that question when he spoke at Saddleback Church in April:

"...they also told us about the vision of the PEACE plan.... It is a vision with a big goal, which is to confront the world's major problems; but it is practical and simple in strategy because it is built on using average people rather than just the elite. Rick and I agree that each partner – the church, the government and businesses have a role to play and we are better together and more effective when we cooperate."[15]

"More effective" in what way? In planting Biblical churches -- or in "Capacity Building" and "developing" people who think collectively and fit the UN vision? Will cooperation with "government and businesses" actually help establish Christ-centered churches with faithful "born again" Christians who -- by God's grace -- love and follow His Word? Or will it spread compromise and deception? Will it please God or man?



Will it fulfill what Warren presents as God's five main purposes for the Church? Or might those purposes all be redefined under the banner of church growth, church health, and success-driven service through church/world alliances?[16] Partnerships face problems when one partner controls the money or political power. The controlling member will be in a position to set the rules and define the terms, forcing the other member(s) to submit or leave.



Actually, Rick Warren's five purposes have already been compromised. "Warren presents some basic teaching regarding Gods purpose to glorify Himself and what man should do in relation to God," wrote Richard Bennett in an article titled "The Purpose Driven Life: Demeaning the Very Nature of God." "The fact that none of these purposes is presented in a biblically accurate way makes Warren's work all the more dangerous to the true understanding of Who God is and His Gospel in Christ."[17]



Consider Warren's five main purposes from a Biblical perspective:

Worship: Postmodern worship forms are designed to stir happy feelings and human excitement, not worship inspired by the Holy Spirit. They point to a positive and permissive God who -- like our human team members -- will cheer our self-centered nature and excuse our unholy ways. Such celebrations clash with genuine expressions of a Spirit-filled heart that freely praises our wonderful holy God without emotion-raising, man-centered programs. (See Spirit-Led or Purpose-Driven)

Fellowship: Purpose-driven "fellowship" tends to follow today's dialectical guidelines. These push group members toward unbiblical tolerance, feeling-based rather than fact-based "sharing," and silence with regard to Biblical absolutes. In contrast, Biblical fellowship happens when we come together with common delight in His Word, His will and His ways -- loving and encouraging each other with His Word and by His Spirit.

Discipleship: The new church management systems call for training in submission and loyalty to "the group" and the new social ethics -- not to God and His Word. It requires participation in collective thinking and "service learning" and fun team building activities. It shuns God's narrow ways and divisive truths, and twists God's call for Biblical oneness into an invitation to join the world on its highway to corruption.



Ministry: The shape and structure of purpose-driven ministries are increasingly defined by new management gurus, personality assessments, community surveys, and group appeal, not by Biblical teaching nor God's actual purposes. But the Bible shows us that our main focus should be on building up believers by preaching and teaching His Word, and by exhorting and serving one another. We are called to live and work together by His Spirit -- not by group thinking and politically correct tolerance. In the true Church, all the members know and follow Jesus Christ, the King of all! He is not a reinvented god acceptable to the world, but the holy, almighty God who revealed Himself through the Scriptures.


Evangelism: Today's soft, non-offensive gospel focuses on God's supposed passionate love for people who are naturally lovable, not on His loving mercy for depraved sinners. (See Ephesians 2:1-4) When "Christian" change agents train the masses to "think outside the box" of God's unchanging Word, they are spreading a false gospel and blinding people to the only truth that can set us free.

The assumption that "the ends justify the means" has already blinded a critical mass of "Christian" leaders. Many don't realize that the promised "end" is merely an illusion. Trained to accept a compromised gospel, they spread it to a world that wants to share in God's blessings without conviction of sin or genuine repentance. The non-Christian masses are more than willing to join, for A gospel purged of its offensive parts the world. the movement without Biblical conversion.

This radical reformation becomes all the more concerning when church leaders like Rick Warren link hands with Bono, Ellen DeGeneres, and other UN supporters in their evangelistic crusade and war on poverty. Since these noble aims fit right into the United Nations' efforts to "develop" nations, train human resources, build social capital, and establish its global management system, we cannot ignore its basic philosophy.

What's more, today's soft, social "gospel" conforms easily to UNESCO's guidelines for religion in the new world order. Remember Pastor Warren's words, "The first [Reformation] was about beliefs. This one will be about deeds."[11]

It all makes sense. The true gospel offends people. It reminds us that we are fallen creatures in bondage to sin apart from God. That's why God's Word warns us that "we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are saved and among those who are perishing. To the one we are the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the aroma of life leading to life." (2 Corinthians 2:14) It reminds us not to expect popularity in the world when we are true to His Word! Instead we are called to follow His narrow, difficult road, no matter what the cost:

“If the world hates you, you know that it hated Me before it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love its own. Yet because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you.... If they persecuted Me, they will also persecute you... because they do not know Him who sent Me." John 15:18-21

In contrast, humanitarian deeds will win the world's applause. So will a whitewashed gospel, cleansed of offensive truth, and focused on man's worth rather than God's righteousness. This new gospel fits the vision of UNESCO (United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization) as summarized in its Declaration on the Role of Religion in the Promotion of a Culture of Peace. Notice that it uses the evils committed by false or "cultural Christianity" to justify its criticisms of genuine Christianity and to press all religions into accepting its guidelines for global service in its new world order:

1. ...We are all interdependent and share an inescapable responsibility for the well-being of the entire world.

2. We face a crisis which could bring about the suicide of the human species or bring us a new awakening and a new hope. We know that religion… has an indispensable role to play….

6. Religions have… led to division, hatred, and war. Religious people have too often betrayed the high ideals they themselves have preached.

8. Peace entails that we understand that we are all interdependent…. collectively responsible for the common good.

11. We must… cultivate a spirituality which manifests itself in action...

13. We commit ourselves to ... assure a truly humane education for all. We emphasize education for peace, freedom, and human rights, and religious education to promote openness and tolerance.

19. Our communities of faith have a responsibility to encourage conduct imbued with wisdom, compassion, sharing, charity, solidarity, and love; inspiring one and all to choose the path of freedom and responsibility. Religions must be a source of helpful energy.

20. … We should distinguish fanaticism from religious zeal.

21. We will favor peace by countering the tendencies of individuals and communities to assume or even to teach that they are inherently superior to others …

22. We will promote dialogue and harmony between and within religions … respecting the search for truth and wisdom that is outside....

23. …We call upon the different religious and cultural traditions to join hands… and to cooperate with us."[18]

Whether consciously or simply out of success-oriented pragmatism, the purpose-driven church movement has answered the call. With management guru Peter Drucker as his mentor, Rick Warren's quest for reformation and transformation serves the UN vision very well. In fact, the two seem to march to the same drumbeat. Like Warren's vision of transformation, UNESCO Culture of Peace Programme calls for total transformation to its global system of assessments and control --"a process of individual, collective and institutional transformation."[2]

Those who have studied UN literature realize that its envisioned "Culture of Peace" would happily embrace a compromised form of Christianity that would serve the world system. But Biblical Christianity, so despised by the world, would be banned -- just as Jesus warned His disciples:

"...they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. But he who endures to the end shall be saved." (Matthew 24:9-13) See Signs of the times

A small group of faithful missionaries, working quietly among the African poor, might by God's grace, be able to share the whole gospel beyond the watchful eyes of the new global managers. But the publicity-hungry PD movement with its popular agenda will be carefully scrutinized for compliance with the UN ideals. To succeed within this global framework of control, it must conform, comply and ultimately serve the global agenda. And its fury may well be focused on those uncompromising missionaries and faithful Christians who would rather suffer persecution at the hands of intolerant "peace-makers" than betray their beloved Lord.

Two Scriptures would be worth remembering in the challenging times ahead:

"...the time is coming that whoever kills you will think that he offers God service. And these things they will do to you because they have not known the Father nor Me." John 16:2-3

"But none of these things move me; nor do I count my life dear to myself, so that I may finish my race with joy, and the ministry which I received from the Lord Jesus, to testify to the gospel of the grace of God.“ Acts 20:24


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See also Spirit-Led or Purpose-Driven? and Small Groups and the Dialectic Process


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Endnotes:

1. Rick Warren: Global Baptists -- "We're all in this together," at http://www.bwanet.org/Congress/congresstoday29f.htm

2. UNESCO Culture of Peace Programme at http://www.peace.ca/vowunesco.htm

3. Federico Mayor, speaking at a conference on "solidarity" during the 1996 UN Conference on Human Settlements in Istanbul, Turkey. Taped and transcribed by Berit Kjos.

4. Leonard Sweet, Soul Tsunami, Page (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan Publishing House, 1999), pages 17, 34, 75.

5. Ken Camp, "Second Reformation' will unify church, Warren tells Dallas GDOP," Pastors.com, 2005, at www.pastors.com/article.asp?ArtID=8280

6. Leonard Sweet, Quantum Spirituality, entire book available online at Quantum Spirituality: A Postmodern Apologetic

7. See "The International Agenda at http://www.crossroad.to/Books/BraveNewS ... tm#1-wcefa and Small Groups and the Dialectic Process at http://www.crossroad.to/articles2/04/3-purpose.htm. See also http://www.undp.org/eo/ADR

8. "Millennium Goal: Conforming the world to Socialist Solidarity" at www.crossroad.to\articles2\TwoSummits.htm


9. www.crossroad.to\Quotes\globalism\chisholm.htm and "UNESCO: Its purpose and Its Philosophy" at www.crossroad.to\Quotes\globalism\julian-huxley.htm

10. "Serving the 'greater whole'" at www.crossroad.to\Books\BraveNewSchools\6-Service.html and "Social Change and Communitarian Systems" at www.crossroad.to/articles2/04/6-purpose ... tarian.htm and "Molding Human Resources for the Global Workforce at www.crossroad.to/text/articles/HumanResources.html

11. "Pastor [Warren] lays out a global vision," [registration required]:

12. "Reinventing the World" at www.crossroad.to/articles2/Reinvent1.htm and Re-Inventing the Church at www.crossroad.to/articles2/2002/change-agent-1.htm

13. "P.E.A.C.E. Plan: A Worldwide Revolution, Warren Tells Angel Stadium Crowd at http://www.purposedrivenlife.com/absolu ... &zoneid=25

14. David Van Biema, "Warren of Rwanda," Time magazine, August 22, 2005 at http://www.time.com/time/archive/previe ... 46,00.html

15."Remarks by his Excellency Paul Kagame, President of the Republic of Rwanda, at Saddlback Church (17 April, 2005) at http://www.gov.rw/government/president/ ... leback.htm

16 Topical Index of Scriptures at www.crossroad.to\HisWord\verses\topics\alliances.htm

17. Richard Bennet, "The Purpose Driven Life: Demeaning the Very Nature of God," at http://www.bereanbeacon.org/articles/ri ... iven_2.htm

18. Declaration on the Role of Religion in the Promotion of a Culture of Peace

19. "Dealing with Resisters" at www.crossroad.to/articles2/04/4-purpose-resisters.htm

[Carmela]

I agree with you, Jeani, about Rick Warren. I started watching that program but had to turn it off. Not one of those guys is a Christian and yet they think they are. From what I saw it was coming from a completely worldly point of view. So sad to think of all the people who watched and really think that Warren and Obama and McCain are true Christians.

[Remnant]

Just, Got through watching the whole thing in its entirety.

How anyone can vote for Obama is beyond comprehension and especially those who call themselves a Christian. He stuttered and said more uh's then you could count.

At least John McCain gave great answers concerning our national security. Obama was a joke.

What struck me about Rick Warren and made me wonder if he see a political career in his future!

I will be looking forward to reading the transcripts and the medias slant on this will be.

[Remnant]

Saddleback presidential forum
Jim Brown - OneNewsNow - 8/16/2008 7:10:00 PM
Obama and McCain answer questions from Pastor Rick Warren. Read this story for their response.

Hour 1: Obama

Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama says America's greatest moral failure is not abiding by the command of Jesus in the book of Matthew to care for "the least of these."

"That basic principle applies to poverty it applies to racism and sexism, it applies to not having, not thinking about providing ladders of opportunity for people to get into the middle class," said Obama. "There's a pervasive sense I think that this country as wealthy and powerful as we are, still don't spend enough time thinking about the least of these."



Obama said the greatest personal moral failure was his use of drugs and alcohol during his teenage years.



On abortion:



Obama says he is not sure when an unborn baby should be considered a human life worth protecting. He also could not provide an instance where he voted for legislation designed to limit abortions.



When asked by Pastor Warren when he believes a baby receives human rights, Obama did not provide a specific response. "I think that whether you're looking at it from a theological perspective or a scientific perspective, answering that question with specificity is above my pay grade," says Obama.



Obama says he believes in Roe v. Wade not because he's pro-abortion, but because women don't make decisions about abortion "casually." He suggested Americans can find common ground on ways to reduce abortions.



On marriage:



Obama said he believes marriage should be defined as a sacred union between a man and a woman, but says he would not support a constitutional amendment with such language.



"Historically we have not defined marriage in our Constitution," he explained. "It's been a matter of state law that has been our tradition. Now, let's break it down. The reason that people that think there needs to be a constitutional amendment some people believe is because of the concern about same-sex marriage."



Obama says while he is not someone who promotes same-sex marriage, he does back civil unions for homosexuals.



Hour 2: McCain



On energy:



Republican presidential hopeful John McCain says the most significant position he held 10-years ago, that he no longer holds today, was his onetime opposition to offshore oil drilling. According to the GOP White House hopeful, "We've got to drill here, we've got to drill now and we've got to become independent of foreign oil.



McCain contends it is a national security issue. "We're sending seven hundred billion-dollars a year to countries that don't like us very much," said McCain. "[A]nd some of that money is ending up in the hands of terrorist organizations. We cannot allow this greatest transfer of wealth in history and for our national security to be threatened."



McCain argues the U.S. needs wind, tide, solar, and nuclear power, as well as hydrogen cars to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and save on energy costs.



On abortion:



Unlike his rival Barack Obama, McCain declared strongly that he believes a baby is entitled to human rights at the moment of conception.



"I have a twenty-five year pro-life record in the Congress, in the Senate and as president of the United States, I will be a pro-life president and this presidency will have pro-life policies. That's my commitment. That's my commitment to you," said McCain.



McCain says the issue of embryonic stem cell research has been a "great struggle and a terrible dilemma" for the pro-life movement. He acknowledged his support for federal funding of embryonic stem cell research, but said he was "wildly optimistic" that skin cell research "will make this debate an academic one."



On marriage:



McCain reaffirmed his belief that the California Supreme Court was wrong to legalize same-sex marriage.



Like his Democratic opponent, McCain stated that marriage should be defined as between one man and one woman. "I'm a federalist. I believe that states should make those decisions. In my state I hope we will make that decision. In other states they have -- to recognize the unique status of marriage between man and woman," he contends. "...that doesn't mean that people can't enter into legal agreements, that they don't have the rights of all citizens."



If a federal court decided that Arizona must abide by the Massachusetts court ruling legalizing same-sex marriage, McCain said he would support a federal marriage amendment.



On religious persecution:



According to McCain, he would use the most important asset of a president -- "the bully pulpit" -- to call on oppressive countries like China to end religious persecution.



He invoked Ronald Reagan, who the Arizona Senator says stood for and said what he believed. "He said to those people who were then captive nations: The day will come when you will know freedom and democracy and the fundamental rights of man," McCain noted. "Our Judeo-Christian principles dictate that we do what we can to help people who are oppressed throughout the world. And I'd like to tell you that I still think that even in the worst places in the world today and the darkest corners, little countries like Belarus, they still harbor this hope and dream someday to be like us."



McCain called the United States "the most unusual experiment in history."

http://www.onenewsnow.com/Election2008/ ... ?id=216826

[Misfit]

Quote: "If you love truth, you may want to say no! For in his book Soul Tsunami, Dr. Sweet, a popular leader of the Emerging Church, tells us to flow with the currents of change and leave God's unchanging gospel behind. "Postmodern culture is a change-or-be changed world," he continues. "Reinvent yourself for the 21st century or die. Some would rather die than change." [4]

I would rather die than change my beliefs in my salvation through the finished work of Christ on the Cross, and the fact that He is today, alive and seated on the right hand of the Father.
That is the good news, so why would I ever want to cahnge it?

[Misfit]

Frank, it is often the questions that do not get asked and answered that come up to haunt us, after the election!

[Carmela]

Frank, thank you for the run down on last night's question and answer session. McCain certainly did come out ahead on that one. Obama is scarey.

Joi, I feel like you. I would die before I would "flow with the currents of change leaving God's unchanging Gospel behind". This new emerging church looks like a great falling away from the faith!!

[Misfit]

I am not sure how much falling away there is Carmela because that implies they first knew the truth. Perhaps they have itching ears, but have never learned God's truth.

[Carmela]

I am not sure how much falling away there is Carmela because that implies they first knew the truth. Perhaps they have itching ears, but have never learned God's truth.

Yes, you are right. I have a hard time picturing a falling away of those who know the truth. What do you think the falling away from the faith is?

[elect777]

I forgot about it, only caught that bit of it, and it seem Rick was pushing John Mccaian to say Russia is out of the G8..
It seem he was pushing for a war, Russia has a deep ugly sore, I really do not trust them, never have, never will, but inall fairness like laws, have an hearing, innocent untill proven guilty, I have found them guilty, butI am not on the concil ...
Geting back to an ugly sore, does not cut off the arm, before its given a chanch to heal???
As I said, I have no trust in Russia, its just that I do not want to see war with them, and pushing John Mccain to make a statement that would come close to implying such would cost him votes and I think Rick knew it, thats is why he kept pushing, only stopping when he thought the answer given by Mccain would indicate what Rick wanted to hear, I sure pray it did not come out the way, we do not want war with Russia, they hold to many cards, we could be ask to go fish, and come up with an empty net so to speak.

Though I know we can not back down, we can't allow, condon, nor ignore the act Russia has done, but tact is needed, much prayer and spiritual wisdom is the key, not you slap my friend, I am kicking you out of the club, and slapping you hard, that is not smart at all, though I doubt talking will actually heal the relationship between Russia and Georgia, but yet that is why the UN was born, give it time to nurse the two back to healing, then if there is none, then do something else, but do it one step at a time, one with wisdom does not run through a field of landmines, its costly.

JMO here..
again Frank, I'm sorry , but I had intented to watch, not because I think Rick is a Christian, I do not believe Obama is ..
howbeit John Mccain may not be a Christian, but alas, he does hold to most Christian principles, as did Ben Franklin and Thomas Jefferson

what I hear, I think John Mccain spoke very well for our nation.