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Reaching The Full Number
Q. If the fullness of the Gentiles being saved must arrive before the rapture occurs, what about all the people that are continually being born that need to be saved, how could the gentile number ever be final?
A. Paul borrowed the phrase “full number” in Romans 11:25 from nautical terminology. It didn’t mean the full number of sailors in the general sense, just the pre-determined number required to man a particular ship. Just so, the full number of Gentiles is simply the pre-determined number required to complete the Church.
There were believers before the Church and there will be believers after the Church, but there is apparently a specific number pre-determined to be in the Church. When that number is reached the Church will disappear.
Re: "fulness be come in" is NOT "full number brought in."
fulness πλήρωμα plērōma
1) that which is (has been) filled
a) a ship inasmuch as it is filled (i.e. manned) with sailors, rowers, and soldiers
b) in the NT, the body of believers, as that which is filled with the presence, power, agency, riches of God and of Christ
of the Gentiles
Paul uses the term for Gentile Christians
be come in εἰσέρχομαι eiserchomai
to come in: to enter - become the Bride of Christ.
Christians after the Harpazo are not the Bride of Christ... they are the Tribulation Saints.
Big difference.
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Reaching The Full Number
Moderators: Carmela, JWayne, Remnant, AHeartofJoye
4 posts
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Re: Reaching The Full Number
by Remnant » 04 Apr 2011, 07:11
I am not familiar with this teaching. Is Jack Kelley saying that scripture speaks of a certain number of people that will be saved before the rapture?
Re: Reaching The Full Number
by Jeani » 04 Apr 2011, 22:58
And they will fall by the edge of the sword, and be led away captive into all nations. And Jerusalem will be trampled by Gentiles until the TIMES OF THE GENTILES ARE FULFILLED...Luke 21:24
Jesus returned to the disciples' original question about when the temple would be destroyed.
He said that Gentile domination would continue until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
The times of the Gentiles' domination over Jerusalem actually began when the Babylonians took the city and the nation into Captivity in 586 B.C.
Jerusalem will again fall under Gentile domination in the Tribulation...Zech. 14:1-2 just before the Messiah returns to restore Jerusalem.
For whom He FOREKNEW, He also PREDESTINED to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first born among many brethren.
Moreover who He PREDESTINED, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Believers are those God FOREKNEW...
He CHOSE US IN HIM before the Creation of the world...Eph. 1:4
Predestined is marked out BEFOREHAND...
So yes, I believe that God has the number of Gentiles pre numbered to complete the Church....just as He had believers predestined...
That's why I truly believe no one can know when the Rapture will happen because no one will know when the last person is saved to fulfilled the Church...
It is not for us to know, but to do the Great Commission of Acts; however, scripture clearly gave 'signs of the times' of His Second Coming...
Also, we will receive a crown for those who are 'watching and waiting' for His return...
Finally, there is laid up for me the 'crown of righteousness,' which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to ALL who have loved His appearing..
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this MYSTERY, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the FULNESS OF THE GENTILES has come in.
In Romans 11:25 Israel's hardening is partial, in part because there is a remnant chosen by grace...
Even so the, at this present time there is a REMNANT according to the election of grace...Romans 11:5
It is temporary because it will END when God's sovereignly chosen number of Gentiles has been saved.
Jesus returned to the disciples' original question about when the temple would be destroyed.
He said that Gentile domination would continue until the times of the Gentiles are fulfilled.
The times of the Gentiles' domination over Jerusalem actually began when the Babylonians took the city and the nation into Captivity in 586 B.C.
Jerusalem will again fall under Gentile domination in the Tribulation...Zech. 14:1-2 just before the Messiah returns to restore Jerusalem.
For whom He FOREKNEW, He also PREDESTINED to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the first born among many brethren.
Moreover who He PREDESTINED, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
Believers are those God FOREKNEW...
He CHOSE US IN HIM before the Creation of the world...Eph. 1:4
Predestined is marked out BEFOREHAND...
So yes, I believe that God has the number of Gentiles pre numbered to complete the Church....just as He had believers predestined...
That's why I truly believe no one can know when the Rapture will happen because no one will know when the last person is saved to fulfilled the Church...
It is not for us to know, but to do the Great Commission of Acts; however, scripture clearly gave 'signs of the times' of His Second Coming...
Also, we will receive a crown for those who are 'watching and waiting' for His return...
Finally, there is laid up for me the 'crown of righteousness,' which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will give to me on that Day, and not to me only but also to ALL who have loved His appearing..
For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this MYSTERY, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the FULNESS OF THE GENTILES has come in.
In Romans 11:25 Israel's hardening is partial, in part because there is a remnant chosen by grace...
Even so the, at this present time there is a REMNANT according to the election of grace...Romans 11:5
It is temporary because it will END when God's sovereignly chosen number of Gentiles has been saved.
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Jeani - Posts: 3943
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- Location: Homeward Bound
Re: Reaching The Full Number
by Remnant » 05 Apr 2011, 05:34
Oh! At first I thought you or Jack was saying there was a number mentioned in scripture.
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