Christ First Forum

I didn't read the entire article, and certainly didn't research it. I'm not here to argue for, or against, mainly, I guess, to get some input from ya'll on it.

I've heard reports from the missions fields of an "occasional" person being raised from the dead. I immediately questioned it. However, someone pointed out to me that in the Bible, 4 people,besides Jesus, raised people from the dead. In the OT, Elijah did it in 1 Kings 17:22; Elisha in 2 Kings 4:35; in the NT, Peter did it in Acts 9:40; and Paul in Acts 20:9-10.

From what I understand, the Benny Hinns, et al, have been proven to be false healers, etc. However, I understand that many in the missions field are being killed, daily, in the name of Christ, that we don't hear about in the news media. Those that go willingly into hostile regions to spread the gospel have God with them - they don't go there to be heroes as we think of heroes, or to make the news, etc. - they go for one purpose, and that is to spread the Word of God. Again, many are killed while serving Him. Their faith is so much stronger than mine.

All I'm asking is "could it be" that God, in His right, at His time and choosing, enable a missionary to raise someone from the dead? I do NOT want to limit God to what my feeble understanding of Him is - He is ALL powerful, He spoke this universe into existence - who am I to question what He can and won't do.

I'm just thinking out loud - what do ya'll think?

Thanks ya'll, I agree with what you said. I wouldn't want to be brought back from the dead, either. I agree with Frank on something he said that I find a little controversial today. He said that Jesus empowered the apostles to do things in their ministry that we are not capable of doing today. That has always been my belief; in fact, just last week I told my son that if it were the other way, and I was able to move mountains if I had the faith, if I could heal the sick if I had the faith, etc., then I am terribly lacking in my faith. He said "Dad, no you aren't. To some it is given to do this, to some, that." I think he's right. Jesus did breathe on the disciples and empower them with special abilities to perform, in His Holy Name. I agree with Frank that most of us just don't have those same abilities.

Anyway, lol, thanks for all the input. I love discussuions like these, because we learn more about Him and His Word - that's always exciting, and then comes the part where we must go and use it to help the lost out there. Lord, please help us with this cause!!!

The Kingdom of God, the Kingdom which Jesus taught, is still evidenced by those who seek after it. "Seek ye first the Kingdom of God"
Who are we to say that God's miracles don't happen like they did in the days of the Apostles, when the Bible says we would do greater things than Jesus????
The missionaries in the Amazon who are healing the sick and raising the dead....... is it the devil then? NO! We American Christians are so filled with knowledge that the simple things of God, such as His Kingdom, seem to go way over our heads. Have you ever heard of Wigglesworth? Now, there's a man who understood Kingdom power.

Smith Wigglesworth;
For those of you who would like to read a very good book on this man, there is a small 157 page paperback book titled: “Smith Wigglesworth – Apostle of Faith.” The author is Stanley Howard Frodsham. You can click on the link and order it from Bible Knowledge Christian bookstore online. It talks about all of his secrets and many of the unbelievable healings that he had in his ministry.

In addition to the healing ministry he had with the Lord, he also was a powerful evangelist and won many souls to the Kingdom of God. He traveled throughout most of Europe and the United States.

In all my research this man, in my opinion, may have been one of the greatest eagles to have ever walked this earth. He truly tapped into the real power of God and God used him mightily in getting people saved, healed and delivered.

The funny thing about him is that most Christians have never heard of him. He was non-denominational. He did not belong to any one Church or denomination, and he went wherever the Holy Spirit would lead him to on a daily basis. He perfectly followed the leadings he received from the Holy Spirit on a daily basis as to where he should go, what he should do and who he should see.

They say his second secret, besides his high level of faith in the Lord, was his ability to mesh with and follow the leadings of the Holy Spirit on a daily basis – and that is what being a real eagle for God is all about.

Eagles have to learn to fly on strong wind thermals in order to be able to fly to heights that no other bird can – and eagles of God have to be able to mesh with and follow the leadings and directions of the Holy Spirit on a daily basis if they want to be able to accomplish great things for God.

Hi Doug, I am familiar with this man just like I am with Katherine Kuhlman and Benny Hinn. Like I said; I believe they to be false teachers and Charlatan. There is so much that they did and do that is not scriptural based. When Jesus left this earth He gave us his word as a guide. 2 Timothy 3:16 says: All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness.

Doug, did you happen to look under apostacy here and search for Benny Hinn. I did not realize that you were such a strong supporter of these type of movements. I thought that you attended a Calvary Chapel church? Could we discuss these things by email ? Please feel free to do so. Also please read the posting guidelines. Thanks!

Are you saying that you don't believe that Smith Wigglesworth was operating in the power of the Holy Spirit?

P.S. I am a firm supporter of the movement of the Holy Spirit, whenever, and however He moves, because He always gives Glory to Jesus Christ.
I have friends who don't believe in some of the gifts, yet I love them dearly.

When I was very young, one of my Christmas presents was a crystal radio set that I had clamped to a ground wire outside my bedroom window.
Late at night, I listened to very distant stations, and I had two favorites; A black Church in the South where I listened to their unusual worship music, which I learned to love, and Katherine Kuhlman, who I thought was kind of creepy, but made alot of sense somehow, talking about God in a way that I never heard before in my safe and cozy Lutheran Sunday School. Later in life, I became a musician, akin to Spiritual Blues, and the Holy Spirit, How He moves like the wind, coming and going where least expected. I love the Lord Jesus with all my life, and Frank, it is true:
I am a very unusual Christian because I have witnessed very unusual things, "not of this world" as Jesus would say. Please be patient with me...
We're all in this together, and Jesus is coming very soon, sooner than we can imagine. Meanwhile, my desires are to be obedient to His Word, to hear His voice, and to be counted as faithful.

Servant wrote:Are you saying that you don't believe that Smith Wigglesworth was operating in the power of the Holy Spirit?

I am saying that some of the things he did was not of the Lord!
Such as: He taught a form of sinless perfection. He stated: "I am realizing very truly these days that there is a sanctification of the Spirit where the thoughts are holy, where the life is beautiful, with no blemish" (Wigglesworth, "Count It All Joy," August 1925, reprinted in The Anointing of His Spirit, p. 226). Oh, that this were the truth, but it is not. The Apostle Paul described his experience in these words: "For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not. ... O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death" (Rom. 8:18,24). There is spiritual victory through the Holy Spirit in this life, but it is not the experience described by Wigglesworth. It is not a life in which the thoughts are perfectly holy and in which there is no blemish. This is the destructive heresy of perfectionism, of complete sanctification, which has led multitudes of sincere people down the road of confusion and despair. To encourage people to seek and demand that which God has not promised is to expose them to demonic delusion and fleshly fanaticism.

Doug, Let me say this and I hope that this conversation is over about the faith healers.
I resent anyone or anybody who would ever dare to imply that my wife's sickness is a result of lack of faith, Sin, or that we do not have enough faith. I can go to the throne of His grace just like any other child of the king. We are faithful servants and have had hands laid on us and we have applied scripture daily in our life. When I hear how some of these people claim that God's will is to heal all who are sick on this earth or they they just don't have enough faith it makes my blood boil. Why don't they go in the hospitals and corridors of the emergency rooms and lay hands on the sick? When Jesus was healing on the streets he went and everyone he touched was healed.

Doug, I am not angry at you but I want you to know that I have experienced more then the average Christian being on the mission fields. I have been in the Pentecostal camp and I know what it is like to be taken to the woodshed by the Lord. I will stick with the word anytime because experiences can get you in deep water with the Lord.

I understand. I'm wondering if Wigglesworth died in confusion and despair, demonic delusion, and fleshly fanaticism? Did he teach that everyone should be like him, or was he called by God to do a mighty work because God knew he could handle it, and be responsible for it? One of the greatest defeats of a Christian is to look at someone that has been given special and powerful gifts from God, and "be just like him or her." As you know, it doesn't work that way. What I am always challenged with is my own degree of faith, or lack therof, willing to grow in more of the things of God. In no way am I suggesting any lack in you or Joannie's faith. How good and how pleasant it is for the Bretheren to dwell together in unity."

Frank, have you ever had a day when you didn't sin? Yes, we're stuck in this mortal mess of a dispensation, but I have had A FEW sinless days, thanks to the Holy Spirit's leading, and my obedience.

Servant wrote:Frank, have you ever had a day when you didn't sin? Yes, we're stuck in this mortal mess of a dispensation, but I have had A FEW sinless days, thanks to the Holy Spirit's leading, and my obedience.

Not anytime lately! The sins of omission are the ones we need to worry about! I am just glad that I am covered. If we could be perfect and without sin we would not need Jesus. We are not without sin, but we should sin less if we walk on the spirit! I don't so much recognise the days that I was without sin but I sure know the days that I have!

Amen! Notice I said a "few" days.... out of thirty years plus...... still a sinner, saved by Grace. Oh, how glorious to sin not!