Christ First Forum

Presbyterians Comfortable with Female Leaders; Don't Prefer Them
By Audrey Barrick
Christian Post Reporter

Most Presbyterians have been part of a congregation that was led by a woman in some capacity, according to a recent survey. And while most have no preference when it comes to a man or a woman for leadership roles, only 1 percent actually prefer a woman in the pulpit.

At least 87 percent of members, elders (lay leaders) and ministers of Presbyterian churches across the country indicated they have "no opinion" on whether they prefer a man or a woman for most congregational roles, such as a deacon, an elder or a committee chair. But when asked about the gender of their pastor, a smaller majority, at least 63 percent, said they have no preference, the latest Presbyterian Panel survey showed.

Among those who did express gender preferences, 37 percent of members prefer a man as pastor while only 1 percent prefer a woman.

Of male members, 41 percent prefer a man as pastor and 1 percent prefer a woman. Similarly, 34 percent of female members said a man would be their choice for the pastoral role and only 1 percent said they prefer a woman.

Female elders were somewhat more supportive of women in leadership, with 3 percent preferring a woman as pastor and 27 percent preferring a man. No male elders indicated that they prefer a woman as pastor.

Still, most members and elders would support calling a woman the next time there is a pastoral vacancy in their congregation.

A large majority hold no opinion regarding the gender of their presbytery's leaders - moderator, stated clerk, executive/general presbyter. But of those who do have an opinion, 12 percent of members prefer a man for the role and only 1 percent prefer a woman.

Regarding personal preferences on national church roles, such as the head of the General Assembly, which is the highest governing body of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.), 88 percent responded with "no preference" and laity and pastors with a preference prefer a man over a woman.

Overall, the majorities of members and leaders in PC(USA) churches believe their fellow congregants would be "very comfortable" with a woman in various lay congregational roles. But somewhat fewer think that would be the case for the role of pastor, according to the survey.

In other findings, large majorities of members and leaders agree that "as a child I pictured God to be of male gender" and that "using male terms for God seems natural to me."

Nearly half of members and elders agree that "God is best understood in masculine terms" but far fewer (11 percent) pastors and specialized clergy (ministers who serve outside the congregation) agree with the statement. Most pastors and clergy say "God is the creator of gender, and not subject to it."

The survey is based on responses from a questionnaire distributed in November 2007 to a representative sample of 5,000 Presbyterians (members, elders, pastors, and specialized clergy) who serve for a three-year period on the Presbyterian Panel, which is part of the PC(USA). The Panel provides a way to listen to and collect information about the practices, beliefs, and opinions from both clergy and laity. The latest survey provided a snapshot of Presbyterians on "Women in the Church."

http://www.christianpost.com/article/20 ... r-them.htm

God isn't interested in 'what we prefer.'

He's only interested in 'what He prefers for us.'

I have the best woman SS teacher, but I wouldn't attend a church with a woman preacher.

What I would like to know, If most of these prefer men pastors, then why is it so many have women pastors?

I think the reason is why I see sooo many women in my church without their husbands.

My husband didn't get saved until he was 33 years old so 'pride' kept him out of church during those years.

Some men think 'church' is only for women.

My thoughts are: why would 'men' let a 'woman' preach in their church?

Lack of Bible knowledge or commitment to the Lord of who's suppose to be the leader.

....and by being a leader does not mean controlling God's flock.

Do you guys think that having a woman pastor is basically the same thing as having a woman president? I was thinking about that this morning. I'm pretty old school where I prefer men to lead my country, fly my jet, be my doctor, fight my country's wars, be the policeMAN, and so on and so forth. I truly believe that God has distinct roles for the man and woman and the lines between the roles are becoming very hazey!

Carmela wrote:Do you guys think that having a woman pastor is basically the same thing as having a woman president? I was thinking about that this morning. I'm pretty old school where I prefer men to lead my country, fly my jet, be my doctor, fight my country's wars, be the policeMAN, and so on and so forth. I truly believe that God has distinct roles for the man and woman and the lines between the roles are becoming very hazey!

When God set things in order He gave a specific order for the human race and purposeful roll for men and women. Men are suppose to be the head of the house and home. Ephesians 5:23 He also created Man first and then women. That has always been His order. He also put men in the leadership roll from the beginning, He even put him over the living creatures and Adam gave them names, he also name Eve. This is His order and what I see going on is this society is changing the order of man's roll and women's role. That is what the homosexual community is all about. The church is just as guilty!

Since the first woman, Antoinette Brown, was ordained in 1853. The role of women in the church changed drastically. It wasn't until 1956 that both Presbyterians and Methodists granted full clergy rights to women, seemingly out of the blue, during the so-called nadir of modern feminism.

God has put an order to our world and we must not under any circumstance try to change that order!

Do I believe it is okay for women to preach? Yes? To teach? Yes? But in Gods order and according to His word. Romans 12:5-8
5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.
6 Having then gifts differing according to the grace that is given to us, let us use them: if prophecy, let us prophesy in proportion to our faith;
7 or ministry, let us use it in our ministering; he who teaches, in teaching; 8 he who exhorts, in exhortation; he who gives, with liberality; he who leads, with diligence; he who shows mercy, with cheerfulness.

One must always concider the who council of God and His word on the matter of women leadership!

Do I believe women should be in the pastorial or shepherding role or what the Bible refers to as a Bishop? No! Here is why!

1 Timothy 3:1-7
1 This is a faithful saying: If a man desires the position of a bishop,[a] he desires a good work.
2 A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, temperate, sober-minded, of good behavior, hospitable, able to teach;
3 not given to wine, not violent, not greedy for money, but gentle, not quarrelsome, not covetous;
4 one who rules his own house well, having his children in submission with all reverence
5 (for if a man does not know how to rule his own house, how will he take care of the church of God?);
6 not a novice, lest being puffed up with pride he fall into the same condemnation as the devil.
7 Moreover he must have a good testimony among those who are outside, lest he fall into reproach and the snare of the devil.

I have had this question put to me. What if their is not a man available, then is it okay to appoint or elect a women pastor? No!

If God establishes a local church, He will surely provide the man for the leadership role of pastor.

Carmela,

You asked: Do you guys think that having a woman pastor is basically the same thing as having a woman president?

Yes, I personally do.

When you study 1 Timothy, you'll see God's order is for women to be equal, but underneath the leadership of your husband.

The question always comes up about the deaconess Phoebe.

I believe God allow her to be a deaconess, but it wasn't His will.

Phoebe was a servant of the church at Cenchrea, commended by Paul to the church of Rome, who had been a recipient of her kindness in Romans 16:1-2

Then there was 'Deborah' in Judges who was a prophetess that judge Israel.

I also believe God allow her to be a prophetess, but it wasn't His will.

I believe the roles of women in the church is to be wives, mothers, and to administer to other women.

I only believe they were allow to 'teach' in the church.

I don't think God calls women to lead our country, but everywhere we see today is 'anti' against God's plans for His church.

However I don't think it's biblically wrong to have a woman doctor for women.

I think women are to administer to other women instead of the men.

Many years I wouldn't use a woman doctor, but I used a young woman about five years ago, and to me, it's sooo much better.

They can relate soooo much more to what and how we feel.

Good question, Carmela.

Carmela wrote:Do you guys think that having a woman pastor is basically the same thing as having a woman president? I was thinking about that this morning. I'm pretty old school where I prefer men to lead my country, fly my jet, be my doctor, fight my country's wars, be the policeMAN, and so on and so forth. I truly believe that God has distinct roles for the man and woman and the lines between the roles are becoming very hazey!

I agree with you..no woman President..unless its me J/K

God made man, them woman, head of the woman is the man,,
if a woman is not to be head of her man, why should she be let be the head of any other womans husnands.. she is not to be head of one man, I feel pretty sure she is not to be other many ..
I tried to convey that to the Capt when he appointed me over the guys, I told him I was old fashion, I did not believe that was right, and I knew some of the guys would not like taking instructions from me because I was a woman..and I had problems with a few, the rest were find, but was relieved when it was given to a guy, and I kiked him a bunch..
You know, I never knew what was in my husbands wallet, and I never open mail that was in his name, not even when it had Mr& mrs on it, his name was before mine, but even if someone made the mistake of puting mine first, I still would have not opened it, got that from my Mom I guess, she never open mail untill my dad came in..
my fokes were old when I was born, my dad really old, and really really Old fashion, SET IN HIS WAYS... born 1877 you know he was hahaha

Elect, you posted: I agree with you..no woman President..unless its me J/K.

Can I be Vice President?

I dont believe in women being pastors either, but teachers. They are led by their heart. I think it takes toughness to pastor and Frank, Im sure you know what Im talking about. Women will let things slip by. Like with me and the hubby, he can stand harder then I can on certain issues and thats something we all need, a leader!

I agree with you Christy.

God created Adam first then Eve.

God's order.

Another reason is that women will tend to use 'emotions' to make decisions; whereas generally speaking, men are less emotional, and more factual.

God gave us the emotions so that we would have natural mother nurturing instincts while the men were design to protect their families.

You see it in God's nature with the animals He created.

Although I totally believe for every good man is a good woman behind him to meet his needs.

Jeani wrote:Elect, you posted: I agree with you..no woman President..unless its me J/K.

Can I be Vice President?

Sure

Christy wrote:I dont believe in women being pastors either, but teachers. They are led by their heart. I think it takes toughness to pastor and Frank, Im sure you know what Im talking about. Women will let things slip by. Like with me and the hubby, he can stand harder then I can on certain issues and thats something we all need, a leader!

and even teachers , not males past 16 years of age, at least it wasn't allowed at the OFB Church
The women had a woman teacher, the men a man, most all the younger children had a woman teacher.

You have heard women are from Venus, men are from mars

Men are the stronger of the two sexs' Woman was made for man, not man for woman.. and Eve was just a rib, taken from Adams side..

and I have heard men say they have had a pain in their side ever since, ya know what I think, I think if they would just hold their wife a little closer, the pain would go away

And Adam was first formed, then Eve, also it was woman that was decieved, not man.

Women just like to believe the best in everyone,..........
even those men who complain having a side-ache

I'm just having a mood ya'l

Carmela wrote:Do you guys think that having a woman pastor is basically the same thing as having a woman president? I was thinking about that this morning. I'm pretty old school where I prefer men to lead my country, fly my jet, be my doctor, fight my country's wars, be the policeMAN, and so on and so forth. I truly believe that God has distinct roles for the man and woman and the lines between the roles are becoming very hazey!

I remember reading recently that women being in the forefront is one of the signs of the 'days of Noah'. Woman has usurped the role of men in todays world.