Christ First Forum

No, Elect, I'm agreeing with Frank's statement.

Some people go through the 'emotions' of being saved, but there was no rebirth.

They are dirty before, and dirty afterwards.

They depend on water baptism for their salvation.

I see it everyday in the churches.

Church membership is more important than salvation.

Every person should be able to tell 'when' they accepted the Lord into their lives instead of 'when' they were baptized.

Elect, is it Janet? I'm really Janet too. I liked and understood your first post. I like the train ticket analogy, it made perfect sense to me. And the marriage vows, I understood that as well. How well is the marriage if one refuses to wear the ring? I would not trust someone who is afraid to openly declare his/her beliefs.

So, now I have a question. How does one get baptized? What kind of church? I know of no church that I want to be a part of. Where I live, it is a lot of Catholics, Lutherans, Protestants. I grew up Catholic and was baptized, but I feel more like I was baptized into a religion and now that I am older and wiser I would like to undo what my parents did to me as a baby. I don't want to belong to another religion and it just seems that baptism is the initiation fee.

Jan

The New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 909 baptismo/v
Original Word Word Origin
baptismo/v from (907)
Transliterated Word Phonetic Spelling
Baptismos bap-tis-mos'
Parts of Speech TDNT
Noun Masculine 1:545,92
Definition
a washing, purification effected by means of water
of washing prescribed by the Mosaic law (Heb 9:
which seems to mean an exposition of the difference between the washings prescribed by the Mosaic law and Christian baptism

Translated Words
KJV (4) - baptism, 1; washing, 3;
NAS (3) - washing, 1; washings, 2;

Jan, So the word baptism, baptismo also means emersion in water.

Does it matter if one is sprinkled, to me it did and does. Will it make any difference in the Long run? No! Again, it is weather you want to be obedient to the word of God. I see you do and i commend you for that.

I would look for a bible believing church or pastor that would baptize you regardless of your church affiliation but because you want to follow in believers baptism as an outward profession of your faith. If I were in your area, I would be glad to have a baptism service for you!

OK, I was doing alright thinking that baptism is a good thing but not necessary to be saved. Now, I don't have much bible under my belt, yet, but is John 3:5 talking about baptism? It kind of sounds mandatory if you want to get to the kingdom of God.

Passage John 3:5:

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

JanMac wrote:Elect, is it Janet? I'm really Janet too. I liked and understood your first post. I like the train ticket analogy, it made perfect sense to me. And the marriage vows, I understood that as well. How well is the marriage if one refuses to wear the ring? I would not trust someone who is afraid to openly declare his/her beliefs.

So, now I have a question. How does one get baptized? What kind of church? I know of no church that I want to be a part of. Where I live, it is a lot of Catholics, Lutherans, Protestants. I grew up Catholic and was baptized, but I feel more like I was baptized into a religion and now that I am older and wiser I would like to undo what my parents did to me as a baby. I don't want to belong to another religion and it just seems that baptism is the initiation fee.

Jan

Hi Jan,
BTW one of my Nics was Jan, had a boyfriend that called me Jan, had an Aunt that called me Jenny, but Sissy was given me when I was a wee tot

I am in agreement with Frank, I am joyful of your zeal to follow in the believers baptism..

Get your Ph, book, better yet,use your Computer, look up Baptist Churches in your area, hee hee, Sweetheart, it does not need be Baptist, but it needs to be a God fearing , loving , surendering Church, one that believes in the death, burial , and resurrection of Christ Yeshua, and His Salvation..

Yes, you are right to think you were baptized into a religion/Church, you were, baptism has nothing to do with your membership in a Church, it has to do with showing your surender to Yeshua, obedience to publicly express your decision, be baptized and say why you are doing it, its not to get saved, its because you are saved, and tell them who your Saviour is, and you are doing it because you want to be obedient.

A close a spiritual productive relationship with God must needs to begin, right off the start .

Jan, if the baptism you had was not a willing one, nor commanded by God, but by the RCC, it was of the Church only,it was not a believers baptism.

I have head others ask in the Baptist Church, ' Do I need to be baptize again,..
the answer is no, not if you knew and understood that you were born in sin, and you confessed it before God, and ask the Lord to forgive you of that sin, and save you from death hell and the grave, and you willingly believed and received it and followed through withthe baptism the same way, that you were not force against your will, or were baptized while to young to remember it, or understand the reason,or had not yet reached the age of accountability,..

For some its quite young, but with some it could be much older, the point is, was it of your own free will, did you do it for the Church, your parents, the Priest, if so, then you were not saved then, because the RCC can not save its self let alone anyone else, Christ Yeshua and Him only saves, not a building nor any man/woman has the authority, power or attibutes of God.

I understand in the RCC that babies are baptised into the Church, and that is what Catholics believes saves you, that is the RCC , which is false doctrine, its all about Yeshua, and His death, burial and resurrection.

On the way Baptism is done, I agree there also with Frank, we have already established baptism does not save you, one does it because they are saved..

However sprinkling on the haed, is not baptism, because like Frank has posted, the word means to be submerged.

And the reason one does it is to identify with the death, burial and surrection of Christ the Lord, and you and I know when someone dies, they do not get a little dirt sprinkled on their head and the Pastor says " he is all buried now "

Our baptism also by doing it signifies we are dying to self, the old man /woman down, the new man/woman up, and from then on live our life for Yeshua, stay as close as possible and be obedient to His Word .

Well, Jan, I pray you find a good believing Church family, with a Pastor that Preaches and Teaches from the Bible and has a steadfast faith, that is in Yeshua..
Check on your computer,, Christian Churches .............. name your city/town ( area )
and when you talk to him, make sure to ask where he stands on moral issues, like abortion, same sex marriages , things like that...

BTW, I don't believe that women are to be Ordain Ministers..
but that I suppose is up to ones own conscious and convictions..

I pray you don't read me wrong here, so to be clear..

"I do not believe in religious restrictions, however, I do believe in Christian convictions"

Hugs & Kisses In Love Always, Sissy

JanMac wrote:OK, I was doing alright thinking that baptism is a good thing but not necessary to be saved. Now, I don't have much bible under my belt, yet, but is John 3:5 talking about baptism? It kind of sounds mandatory if you want to get to the kingdom of God.

Passage John 3:5:

5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Jan, Lets look at this scripture close and take it one step at a time.

When taking a scripture you need to always read it and take it in context. What it say before and after.

John 3: 3-8
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.
6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”

v.3 We must be Born Again.

v. 5 Jesus tells Nicodemus and us how that is possible.

a. He must be born of water, That is the natural birth. When a women gives birth she breaks her water. This also tells us that only humans can be born again and not angels.

b. We must be born of the Spirit. This is done by God the Heoly Spirit to indwell the believing sinner to make them a new creation. Old things have passed away and behold all things become new. Only God can do this and He does it through His indwelling spirit.

v.6 Tells us the diference between being born of the flesh and being born of the spirit.

So the answer to your question is No! It is not talking about water baptism at all.

hmmm.....I will have to read more, understand more. It almost seems, at times, that the bible is a master puzzle, written in a secret language, with hidden meanings. I don't mean that negatively, it's just very difficult to understand. Almost as if it were meant to be studied so that it could be understood. Does that make sense?

Jan

Jan, in the Thoughts for Today room, Frank has provided a link to the Bible Gateway site, where you can do a search for a particular word, or if you know the book & verse, you can look up a passage, or even a whole topic. Look to the left hand side of the page for these features.
Sometimes it can be helpful to look into several different Bible versions, reading each version, then go back to the Bible you use, and that might help to clear up some passages.
Bible Gateway is a site I find most helpful and I use it often.

See Baptize here:

http://www.biblegateway.com/keyword/

JanMac wrote:hmmm.....I will have to read more, understand more. It almost seems, at times, that the bible is a master puzzle, written in a secret language, with hidden meanings. I don't mean that negatively, it's just very difficult to understand. Almost as if it were meant to be studied so that it could be understood. Does that make sense?

Jan

Jan, That is why it says in 2 Timothy 3:16-17 16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness, 17 that the man (Or Women) of God may be complete, thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Studying God's word should be our life's goal as his children and I believed I said this before that, the longer and the more you study it, the more it becomes living and active in your life. Then God the Holy Spirit can reveal truth more readily in our lives so we can be equipped.

Jan,

I agree with Frank on this Bible verse.

John 3:5

Jesus answered, Most assuredly, I say to you unless one is born of water, and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.

Water means, when we are in our mother's womb, we were enclosed in a sak of water.

and the Spirit means the birth above from God before you can enter the kingdom of God.

So Jesus was telling Nicodemus , in order to enter the kingdom, he needed t0 turn to Him (repent) in order to be regenerated by the Holy Spirit.

A fallen person cannot regenerate himself; he needs a divine operation.

Only God's HS can regenerate a human spirit.

The work of the Spirit is invisible and mysterious like the blowing of the wind.

You can feel it.

You can see wind moving objects.

.... you cannot see it, but you know it's there.

Man controls neither...only God.

Praise be it to God!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

When I study scriptures, I break my sentence down from punctuation to punctuation,and meditate.

Hope this helps!

Now I know when Remnant saw me join he must of said o no, not the baptism topic HEHEHEHEHE....

The Bible says:

Romans 10:17 17 So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

This scripture tells us that faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God. So in order to have faith, we must hear the word of God, so we look to what the bible says to be saved.

Acts 1:2 2 until the day in which He was taken up, after He through the Holy Spirit had given commandments to the apostles whom He had chosen.

He gave commandments to the apostle after he was raised from the dead, what are those commandments?

Mark 16:15-16 15 And He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the gospel to every creature. 16 "He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.

ok now, before I go on the part here where it says "but he who does not believe" can be translated from Greek as "He who Refuses to believe".

John 3:3 Jesus answered and said to him, "Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.

ok Born again easy enough born of spirit, everyone has got that part down pretty good.

Jesus said you have to be born again, when you are in your mother’s womb you were in water and just like that baptism of water symbolizes new birth, Born Again. Paul said it in Romans.

Romans 6:4 4 Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

so in baptism we (The Flesh) died, and up came the new person, born of the spirit.

Now this is a biblical baptism

Acts 8:27-39 27 So he arose and went. And behold, a man of Ethiopia, a eunuch of great authority under Candace the queen of the Ethiopians, who had charge of all her treasury, and had come to Jerusalem to worship, 28 was returning. And sitting in his chariot, he was reading Isaiah the prophet. 29 Then the Spirit said to Philip, "Go near and overtake this chariot." 30 So Philip ran to him, and heard him reading the prophet Isaiah, and said, "Do you understand what you are reading?" 31 And he said, "How can I, unless someone guides me?" And he asked Philip to come up and sit with him. 32 The place in the Scripture which he read was this: "He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; And as a lamb before its shearer is silent, So He opened not His mouth. 33 In His humiliation His justice was taken away, And who will declare His generation? For His life is taken from the earth." 34 So the eunuch answered Philip and said, "I ask you, of whom does the prophet say this, of himself or of some other man?" 35 Then Philip opened his mouth, and beginning at this Scripture, preached Jesus to him. 36 Now as they went down the road, they came to some water. And the eunuch said, "See, here is water. What hinders me from being baptized?" 37 Then Philip said, "If you believe with all your heart, you may." And he answered and said, "I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God." 38 So he commanded the chariot to stand still. And both Philip and the eunuch went down into the water, and he baptized him. 39 Now when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught Philip away, so that the eunuch saw him no more; and he went on his way rejoicing.

thats just to show how baptism is performed.

NKJ Acts 22:16 'And now why are you waiting? Arise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord.'

Wash away your sins calling on the name of the lord, now I know that people will say that it’s the calling on the name of the lord that saves, not baptism so we don’t have to be baptized. Well listen to this.

When you are baptized, as I just went over in Acts 8, you are asked if you believe that Jesus is the Christ and the Son of God. And your are baptized in the name of the father, the son and the Holy Spirit. That is calling on his name. You are being baptized in his name. calling on the name of the Lord is apart of Baptism.

NKJ 1 Corinthians 12:13 For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body -- whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free -- and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.

NKJ Galatians 3:27 For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

We are as Christians are to be like Christ, as the Word Christian means Like Christ, but in order to do that we have to put him on, so without being baptized we cannot put on Christ.

Acts 2:38-47 38 Then Peter said to them, "Repent, and let every one of you be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 "For the promise is to you and to your children, and to all who are afar off, as many as the Lord our God will call." 40 And with many other words he testified and exhorted them, saying, "Be saved from this perverse generation." 41 Then those who gladly received his word were baptized; and that day about three thousand souls were added to them. 42 And they continued steadfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, in the breaking of bread, and in prayers. 43 Then fear came upon every soul, and many wonders and signs were done through the apostles. 44 Now all who believed were together, and had all things in common, 45 and sold their possessions and goods, and divided them among all, as anyone had need. 46 So continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, they ate their food with gladness and simplicity of heart, 47 praising God and having favor with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily those who were being saved.

We are added to the Church after Baptism.

NKJ Ephesians 4:5 one Lord, one faith, one baptism;

Under the old law, the Jews had to do things over and over, but when Christ came he made it one.

NKJ Colossians 2:12 buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.

If we are dead, we are dead in sin, but those alive are free from sin, thus this is the New Birth, born again. Born in spirit. Being baptized is being born in the spirit.

NKJ 1 Peter 3:21 There is also an antitype which now saves us -- baptism (not the removal of the filth of the flesh, but the answer of a good conscience toward God), through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,

This shows the reason why should just do it, for it is a good conscience towards God. (because he said so lol)


ok now if anyone can remember from the other forums (wont say the name don't know if Ramnant wants that site link on here) me and Hanc would go back and forth on this, and Act 11 was always brought up, so I'm going to save someone here the work of doing that LOL

Acts 10:44-46 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.

The normal response to this is "see no baptism in the receiving the holy spirit"

well read this

Acts 10:1-6 NKJ Acts 10:1 There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of what was called the Italian Regiment, 2 a devout man and one who feared God with all his household, who gave alms generously to the people, and prayed to God always. 3 About the ninth hour of the day he saw clearly in a vision an angel of God coming in and saying to him, "Cornelius!" 4 And when he observed him, he was afraid, and said, "What is it, lord?" So he said to him, "Your prayers and your alms have come up for a memorial before God. 5 "Now send men to Joppa, and send for Simon whose surname is Peter. 6 "He is lodging with Simon, a tanner, whose house is by the sea. He will tell you what you must do."

The claim here is that Cornelius was not saved yet God heard his prayer.

But Like Paul God has a purpose for this man, it was to show peter that Gentles are to hear the Gospel and be saved to, not just Jews.

The Vision from God.

Acts 10:9-16 9 The next day, as they went on their journey and drew near the city, Peter went up on the housetop to pray, about the sixth hour. 10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance 11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth. 12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 13 And a voice came to him, "Rise, Peter; kill and eat." 14 But Peter said, "Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean." 15 And a voice spoke to him again the second time, "What God has cleansed you must not call common." 16 This was done three times. And the object was taken up into heaven again.

What Peter God from the Vision.

Acts 10:25-28 25 As Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him and fell down at his feet and worshiped him. 26 But Peter lifted him up, saying, "Stand up; I myself am also a man." 27 And as he talked with him, he went in and found many who had come together. 28 Then he said to them, "You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

The Peter started to Preach. And then

Acts 10:44-48 44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God. Then Peter answered, 47 "Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?" 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then they asked him to stay a few days.

God’s point that he was trying to make was that the Gentles are to be saved to.

Acts 11:1-18 NKJ Acts 11:1 Now the apostles and brethren who were in Judea heard that the Gentiles had also received the word of God. 2 And when Peter came up to Jerusalem, those of the circumcision contended with him, 3 saying, "You went in to uncircumcised men and ate with them!" 4 But Peter explained it to them in order from the beginning, saying: 5 "I was in the city of Joppa praying; and in a trance I saw a vision, an object descending like a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came to me. 6 "When I observed it intently and considered, I saw four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air. 7 "And I heard a voice saying to me, 'Rise, Peter; kill and eat.' 8 "But I said, 'Not so, Lord! For nothing common or unclean has at any time entered my mouth.' 9 "But the voice answered me again from heaven, 'What God has cleansed you must not call common.' 10 "Now this was done three times, and all were drawn up again into heaven. 11 "At that very moment, three men stood before the house where I was, having been sent to me from Caesarea. 12 "Then the Spirit told me to go with them, doubting nothing. Moreover these six brethren accompanied me, and we entered the man's house. 13 "And he told us how he had seen an angel standing in his house, who said to him, 'Send men to Joppa, and call for Simon whose surname is Peter, 14 'who will tell you words by which you and all your household will be saved.' 15 "And as I began to speak, the Holy Spirit fell upon them, as upon us at the beginning. 16 "Then I remembered the word of the Lord, how He said, 'John indeed baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit.' 17 "If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?" 18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, "Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life."

Now that scripture shows us that The Disciples accepted it. But did you notice the angel told Caesarea that peter will show how to be saved? Peter Baptized him.

Does Baptism itself save? that doesn't matter. Baptism is Required because Jesus Did it and he said for us to do it, its not our works, but God, God said to do it so its his will isn't what we are suppose to do is do his will?

I agree that water baptism is not necessary for salvation, but it is an important first step into our new life in Christ.

Carmela wrote:I agree that water baptism is not necessary for salvation, but it is an important first step into our new life in Christ.

Amen!

Jan you asked:

So, now I have a question. How does one get baptized? What kind of church?

Before baptism, we have to make sure we know and accepted Christ; then find a church that teaches 'baptism' does not save a person.

Frank and I attend a 'Baptist Church', and most of them believe in water baptism after salvation.

I think some Independent Churches does.

I also believe confessing Christ to others is an important step in our Christian walk.

That's why in our church one will walk down the aisle before the church members to the Pastor where we confess Christ then comes baptism later.

Carmela is right:

water baptism is important first step into our new life in Christ.

When we accept Christ, we are a new borne babe.

We are baptize so that we can grow toward maturity.

Next we find a good Sunday School Class so we can grow even more, but finding a good Bible teaching church is sooo important.