Christ First Forum

I've read a few "prophetic" sites recently that suggests that some of the seals, that are referenced in the Book of Revelation have been in the process of "being opened". Such as the notations of famine, war, plagues--(second, third and fourth seals).

I've always considered these acts or "seal opening" would happen during the Tribulation period itself...not prior to.

Just wondering what everyone's opinion was on this as well.

Eric, Those teachings are not pre tribulation, but mid trib or pre wrath belief.

You are correct that the seals opening will be during the tribulation and we are not there yet.

Please check these threads out:

post10500.html?hilit= seals#p10500

post8168.html?hilit= seals#p8168

post8939.html?hilit= seals#p8939

[i]Eric,

I hope this helps you to understand,and you can follow along with scripture.

Rev. 4:1
After these things I looked,and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a TRUMPET speaking with me, saying, 'COME UP HERE AND I WILL SHOW YOU THINGS WHICH MUST TAKE PLACE AFTER THIS.

Immediately I was in the SPIRIT; and behold a throne set in heaven, and One sat on the throne.

John saw the vision of the heavenly throne after he heard the revelation of the messages to the churches.

John was an elder of a church in 2 John 1 & 3, a disciple in John 21:24.

Chapter 4 is future where this is a 'picture' of the church being Rapture up as in 'Come Up Here or the Rapture happened before.'

4:4 Around the principal throne were 24 elders.

They were dressed in white and were wearing crowns of gold on their heads.

The crowns seem to indicate that the elders had been judged and rewarded.

The elders represent the church raptured prior to this time and rewarded in heaven.

4:5John saw seven lamps were said to be the seven spirits of God .

These should be understood to represent the Holy Spirit (Zech 3:9; 4:10) which resided in the Church.

4:6-8 The elders (Church) was continually praising God.

4:9-11 The elders of the Church lay their crowns before the throne.

5:2-5 Christ is the one worthy to break the 'seals.'

What is the relationship of the seals to the Rapture of the church?

In the letter to Thyatira the Rapture is pictured as yet future and the Rapture is in view in the letter to the church in Philadelphia.

Beginning in Ch 6, there is no reference whatever to the Churches or to the Rapture described in 1 Cor. 15:51-58 and 1 Thes. 4:13-18.

Since neither the Rapture nor the Church are the subject of Rev. 6-18, many conclude that the Rapture takes place 'before' the events of Ch 4 or Ch 4 when John was called up there...

Ch 6:1-2In the opening of the first seal is the conqueror mentioned as the future world ruler referred to the Antichrist.

He's probably the same person as the ruler of the people mentioned in Dan. 9:26.

The ruler has a bow without an arrow, indicating that the world government which he establishes is accomplished without warefare.

The future world gov. begins with a time of peace but is soon followed by destruction.


Ch 19:7 we see the first mention of the Church as the MARRIAGE OF THE LAMB.

Ch. 21:2~ We see the New Jerusalem coming down OUT OF HEAVEN from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

The New Jerusalem is John 14:2 where Jesus told the disciples He was going to prepare a place...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Don't let anyone confuse you that the Rapture happens BEFORE the lawlessone can be reveal...

Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day (Tribulation) will NOT COME unless the FALLING AWAY COMES FIRST and the man of sin IS REVEALED, the son of perdition. 2 Thess 2:3

For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He (HOLY SPIRIT) who now RESTRAINS will do so until HE IS TAKEN OUT OF THE WAY...

The Holy Spirit (which resides in the Church) is the restrainer of the lawlessone.

Hope this helps....

i]

Remnant wrote:Eric, Those teachings are not pre tribulation, but mid trib or pre wrath belief.

You are correct that the seals opening will be during the tribulation and we are not there yet.

Please check these threads out:

post10500.html?hilit= seals#p10500

post8168.html?hilit= seals#p8168

post8939.html?hilit= seals#p8939

Ahhh...that makes sense. It's the first time I've come upon this idea that "the seals have been opened". Logically, it didn't make sense at all. Upon further review of some these sites, I think they're mainly Seventh Day Adventist pushing this idea.

Historically speaking, the idea that some of the seals have been broken/opened (given the descriptions of what happens) wasn't/isn't logical from the perspective of human history.

Just checking. Just wanted to make sure I hadn't overlooked or missed something..thanks.

Jeani wrote:

Don't let anyone confuse you that the Rapture happens BEFORE the lawlessone can be reveal...

Naaa...I wasn't confused. Just trying to figure out where this was coming from and how one could possibly make this claim.

Thanks, Jeani.

I'm wondering about the Gulf Oil Geyser that is about to be spread all over with the threat of hurricanes. This thing is throwing out crude at 3500 PSI from a 21" diameter pipe from an underground reservoir which is under 9000 PSI.....
What if it can't be stopped? Does anyone know how big the oil reservoir is? Could this thing kill the ocean and cause world-wide famines and other catastrophic events as in Revelation?

Amazing how God is in control of all the universe. Like a big clock, it all has purpose and majesty.

Servant wrote:I'm wondering about the Gulf Oil Geyser that is about to be spread all over with the threat of hurricanes. This thing is throwing out crude at 3500 PSI from a 21" diameter pipe from an underground reservoir which is under 9000 PSI.....
What if it can't be stopped? Does anyone know how big the oil reservoir is? Could this thing kill the ocean and cause world-wide famines and other catastrophic events as in Revelation?

I've actually read this well is the second deepest ever drilled...something like 38,000 feet deep. And the PSI was running somewhere in the neighborhood of 12,000 to 20,000 PSI. I'm also reading reports that this oil is leeching out from the ocean floor because of the incredible amount of pressure it's spewing at--so even capping the hole--if you could even do this with such pounds per square inch (PSI) forces coming at you, I'm not sure it totally fixes the problem--like putting toothpaste back into the tube. Apparently no one has ever dealt with such force as this before and it's outside our ability to deal with it. This incredible PSI supposedly blew all the "safety values" like they were crackers.

The Russians--according to what I have read--drilled down to nearly 40,000 feet and had the same issue. But this was on land and they covered it up a lot better--since it wasn't floating everywhere and it was less obvious. I'm not sure if how the Russians "fixed" the problem they had--or if they even were able to. Real info is sometimes very hard to get out of Russia--as expected.

I don't think it's going to kill the ocean--it will have a regional impact as we're seeing now...but it may be a little preview of what the Tribulation will be like--just on a much, much smaller scale. One of the judgments turns the ocean (1/3) into blood...

Eric, you have been given good responses, by all. Remember, the seals are part of tribulation period (Daniel's 70th Week), and the Church can have no part in that - we are to be removed BEFORE. It's that simple.lol