Christ First Forum

by **Jeani** » 20 Apr 2010, 19:59

iEnoch, Elijah, And The Rapture

QUESTION:
Q. How many years before the flood was Enoch “raptured”? Any significance? How about timing of Elijah’s “rapture” in relation to any judgment event? Are they “types” of the coming pre-judgment rapture of the Church?

ANSWER:
A. Enoch was “raptured” 669 years before the Great flood. Scholars often point to his disappearance as a type of the rapture because Jesus said that the time of His coming would be like the days of Noah. In both cases there are three kinds of people involved. The one that perishes in the judgment (the unbelieving world) the one that’s preserved through the judgment (the Jewish remnant and Noah) and the one that’s taken away before the judgment (the Church and Enoch). Furthermore, according to Jewish tradition Enoch was born on the day that would become Pentecost, just like the church, and his name means “teaching”, the primary role of the church (Matt. 28:19-20).

I think Elijah, being the only other one raptured, serves primarily as the fulfillment of the “two witnesses” principle where a thing is established by the testimony of two witnesses (Deut. 19:15). Enoch and Elijah give witness to the fact that it’s possible to be taken live into Heaven.

Tags: Rapture
http://gracethrufaith.com/ask-a-bible-t ... e-rapture/][/i]

by **Remnant** » 20 Apr 2010, 21:41

Q. How many years before the flood was Enoch “raptured”? Any significance? How about timing of Elijah’s “rapture

I don't believe scripture bares this out. In fact it says just the opposite. Elijah was never raptured.

"NO MAN HAS ASCENDED TO HEAVEN but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven." (John 3:13, NKJV)

"By faith Enoch was TRANSLATED so that he did not see death, 'and was not found because God had translated him'; for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." (Hebrews 11:5, NKJV) Then in Hebrews 11:13 it says These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off were assured of them,[a] embraced them and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. I believe these scripture concerning Enoch not seeing death was refering to the righteous in the Lord did not see death. Otherwise it would contradict the scripture in John 3:13

The Greek text of Hebrews 11:5 is also illuminating. The NKJV reads in part: "By faith Enoch was taken away so that he did not see death..." Here the Greek word rendered "taken away is METATITHEMI, which, according to Strong's Exhaustive Concordance, means "to place, or transfer in a passive, horizontal posture." Forms of this word also occur in Acts 7:16 ("carried back"), Galatians 1 :6 ("turning away"), Heb.7:12 ("changed"), and Jude 4 ("turn").

The testimony of God's Word is clear and consistent on these matters. All die in Adam. Enoch and Elijah are no exception! Along with the patriarchs, the prophets and all who have since died in faith--they sleep the sleep of death until the time of there resurrection.

I must be honest, I am not a fan of Jack Kelley and some of his teachings!

Enoch and Elijah give witness to the fact that it’s possible to be taken live into Heaven.

No, I believe Jesus gives witness to the fact that it is possible for us to be taken to heaven!

by **Carmela** » 21 Apr 2010, 06:08

I'm not gonna touch this one. . .

by **WKUHilltopper** » 06 Jun 2010, 13:54

"By faith Enoch was TRANSLATED so that he did not see death, 'and was not found because God had translated him'; for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." (Hebrews 11:5, NKJV)

So technically, those called up in the rapture will be TRANSLATED? This actually makes sense to me--since our flesh can't look upon the Holiness of God without some form of special change.

by **Remnant** » 06 Jun 2010, 15:55

WKUHilltopper wrote:
"By faith Enoch was TRANSLATED so that he did not see death, 'and was not found because God had translated him'; for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." (Hebrews 11:5, NKJV)

So technically, those called up in the rapture will be TRANSLATED? This actually makes sense to me--since our flesh can't look upon the Holiness of God without some form of special change.

I don't think that is the same, for even Enoch will have to wait to receive his glorified body when he meets Jesus in the air.

Like, I have posted, there is no scriptural evidence that Enoch was raptured or taken up to heaven and in fact Jesus Himself said so. "NO MAN HAS ASCENDED TO HEAVEN but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven." (John 3:13, NKJV)

by **WKUHilltopper** » 06 Jun 2010, 17:51

Remnant wrote:
WKUHilltopper wrote:
"By faith Enoch was TRANSLATED so that he did not see death, 'and was not found because God had translated him'; for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God." (Hebrews 11:5, NKJV)

So technically, those called up in the rapture will be TRANSLATED? This actually makes sense to me--since our flesh can't look upon the Holiness of God without some form of special change.

I don't think that is the same, for even Enoch will have to wait to receive his glorified body when he meets Jesus in the air.

Like, I have posted, there is no scriptural evidence that Enoch was raptured or taken up to heaven and in fact Jesus Himself said so. "NO MAN HAS ASCENDED TO HEAVEN but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven." (John 3:13, NKJV)

Oh, ok. I was thinking somehow "translated" was meaning "receiving a glorified body". Probably was just reading too much into it.

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