Christ First Forum

Blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is mentioned by Jesus in Mark 3:29 where He states, "But whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit will never be forgiven; he is guilty of an eternal sin." But isn't Jesus speaking to something that is time specific to the circumstances in Mark which was that of someone accusing Jesus of being demon possessed or was Jesus making a blanket statement for all instances, in all circumstances, forever?

I do not believe that blasphemy of the Spirit or as some people call it the "unpardonable sin" is the same today. In present day circumstances it refers to a continued unbelief in Jesus Christ as Lord. It is not speaking about Jesus in a derogatory manner which is certainly sinful but not unforgivable.

John 3:16-18 says it all when it states, "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son." Nothing is more clear about our salvation and Jesus' love than that.

What do you think? Is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit relevant today as the unforgivable or unpardonable sin?

I do not believe that blasphemy of the Spirit or as some people call it the "unpardonable sin" is the same today. In present day circumstances it refers to a continued unbelief in Jesus Christ as Lord. It is not speaking about Jesus in a derogatory manner which is certainly sinful but not unforgivable.

Wayne, In this you are correct!

The only sin that is not unpardanable is unbelief. When one rejects Jesus and never accepts Him and receives Him as Lord and Savior, There is not another chance. That sin is not pardonable.

John 3:18-19 “He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.

I agree...it's unbelief. The one sin that cannot be forgiven.

I agree with all of you. I was listening to a sermon yesterday and something came to mind. He was preaching on those in the tribulation that take the mark of the beast can't be saved after that. True. However, it came to mind that today, while in the Church Age, there have been atheists, satan worshipers, the worst of the worst, who have been convicted of their ways and turned to Christ for salvation. However, that won't be true during the tribulation period for those who take the mark of the beast. It just occured to me what some end-time teachers are saying - the Holy Spirit operates differently during the tribulation period, than now. We are sealed with the Holy Spirit - tribulation period believers aren't. Those accepting Christ during the tribulation period must maintain their walk with Christ to the end, or lose their salvation, whereas, ours is secure forever. And, those who take the mark can NOT be saved thereafter. A big difference here - the lost need to sit up and take notice.

Hi Troy, This is a very interesting subject and has been made a lot of speculation of.

We are sealed with the Holy Spirit - tribulation period believers aren't. Those accepting Christ during the tribulation period must maintain their walk with Christ to the end, or lose their salvation, whereas, ours is secure forever. And, those who take the mark can NOT be saved thereafter. A big difference here - the lost need to sit up and take notice.

I believe when one gets saved, regardless of whether it is during tribulation or before or even after. They will have the living God indwelling them. The work of the Holy Spirit came after Pentecost to indwell all believers for eternity.

Now the Holy Spirit that as the restrainer will be removed form the earth, but if one gets saved during the tribulation, they will have to come to Christ just like we did. I believe Christ will send them the comforter also. I do not believe that they will lose there salvation. I see nothing in scripture that tells us that. In fact, I believe the scriptures speak and attest to the opposite of that.

I am open to this and would like to see where this comes from. What prophecy teachers teach that a person can lose there salvation during the tribulation?

The thousand year reign is different for we who have been saved before the tribulation will rule and reign with Jesus and those that make it through tribulation and are saved will not lose there salvation either. All the children and people born during that time will not die but live on this earth under the rule, protection and leadership of Jesus Christ. At the end of the thousand years, they will have a chance to accept Him or reject Him, just like we did as it says in Revelation 20.

Troy, I have been wrong before and have had to adjust my stance on certain things concerning end times prophecy. The adjustments came through careful study and reading of the word.

I could have missed something and am always open to the truth.

Frank, let me begin by saying that I, in no way, wanted to start something controversial here. I was trying to relate what I thought was correct from my studies, but I may be entirely wrong. Several writers say that once the spirit-indwelt Church is removed at the Rapture, the Holy Spirit will revert to the way He operated in the Old Testament. I think they refer to when David had his escapade with Bathsheba and repented, he prayed that the Lord would not remove the Holy Spirit from him. They say that prayer wouldn't make sense in the Church Age, because believers are sealed with the Holy Spirit, ensuring our salvation. I will quickly cite a couple of the writers: (1) Jack Kinsella - Omega Letter Editor - Article "Neither Jew Nor Gentile" (not sure, but I think Jack Kinsella is a writer for Hal Lindsey). (2) Jack Kelly of Grace Thru Faith - Article - "The Great Pause". I wanted to go into their articles, but the post would be entirely too long. They cite scripture in support of their positions. I think that I have copies of other articles embracing this, but I would have to do much reading to find their statements.lol. I consider myself a "baby Christian" at best, and I am in no position to argue the point.

I apologize if I posted something which isn't correct. I have a Christian love for this forum and everyone here, and don't want to do anything to jeopardize my participation. Please remove these posts if you feel it's in the best interest of the forum. Time's close - we NEED togetherness - NOT divisiveness. Your BIC - Troy

Troy, You in no way have caused any problems and I really would like to see where these teachers are coming from on this. Like I said, I could be wrong.

I have done exstensive study on the ministry of the Holy Spirit and am always open to what others teach.

You keep posting what you find of interest to you and like I told Jeani. I doubt very seriously we will not always agree on everything concerning prophecy.

Thank you for your courteous response, Frank, I truly appreciate it! They quote scripture, and launch into why they believe this & that. It becomes rather lengthy, too much so to do in a post. I have the articles printed out - but I don't know how to scan & send to you. Maybe I can go back to the article archives on their websites & re-post them, or send to you that way, if I can find them. One thing I KNOW for sure is this - we WILL NOT be here during the tribulation period to find out whether what they say is so or not - we'll all be in Heaven with the Lord during Daniel's 70th Week - that I know.

One thing I KNOW for sure is this - we WILL NOT be here during the tribulation period to find out whether what they say is so or not

Amen and Amen!

Here is one article that I believe Troy was referring to. I, too, have found Jack Kelly's teachings on this very interesting:


Home Page Explore Our Articles About Grace Thru Faith Contact Information Links Help Support Our Site Gift Shop The Nature Of Post-Church Salvation
A Bible Study by Jack Kelley

Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. (Matt 24:12-13)

In the debate over the timing of the Rapture, one point is often overlooked. And that is that the terms and conditions of salvation during the Great Tribulation are vastly different from those during the Church Age, and therefore couldn’t be meant for the same group. In both cases salvation is by faith alone, but that’s where the similarity ends. This presents another argument for Church Age believers being taken before the Great Tribulation begins.

Here’s the bottom line on the nature of salvation during the Church Age. Ephesians 1:13-14 says “And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory. Note the word “guaranteeing”. Before we had the chance to do anything, good or bad, our destiny was sealed. We’re saved by what we believe, not by how we behave.

John 6:39 says “And this is the will of him who sent me, that I shall lose none of all that he has given me, but raise them up at the last day.” Note the word “none”.

John 10:27-30 says “My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one can snatch them out of my hand. My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, no one can snatch them out of my Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.” Note the words “no one.”

Romans 8: 38-39 says, “For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.” Note the words “nor anything in all creation.”

These passages all promise that we who are saved during the Church Age will never have to wonder about the security of our standing with the Lord. There are other verses that support this. These are simply some of the clearest.

What Happens Then?
According to 2 Thes. 2:7, the anti-Christ, AKA the man of lawlessness or son of perdition, can’t be revealed to begin the Great Tribulation until the “restrainer” is taken out of the way, or literally out of the midst. Several identities have been proposed for this restrainer; the Roman State, the Jewish State, the principle of Law and Government, and others stemming largely from man’s recognized need for certain behavioral standards in organized societies. But to many scholars the best case can be made for the view that it’s really the Holy Spirit as contained in the Church who’s restraining evil in the world.

“Take the restrainer and you have to take the container” as the popular saying goes. When the Church disappears, the restraining influence of the Holy Spirit is removed from the world and the anti-Christ will be revealed to do his worst. There’s historical precedent for removing the Holy Spirit before a great judgment. You can interpret Genesis 6:3 to show that God removed His Spirit’s influence from among men before the Great Flood as well. Interestingly, He removed Enoch, a fascinating type of the Church, before the Flood too, (Genesis 5: 24) but that’s a different story.

The point here is that the promise of an indwelling Holy Spirit that guarantees our eternal destiny is uniquely given to the Church. No Old Testament believer enjoyed such a relationship. Even King David, a man after God’s own heart, prayed that God would not take the Holy Spirit from him following his sin with Bathsheba. (Psalm 51:11) Old Testament believers were not promised that the Spirit of God would be sealed within them as a guarantee of their destiny. Nor can I find a single verse that makes such a promise to Tribulation believers. It seems that Eternal Security begins and ends with the Church.

After we’re raptured, we’ll no longer need the Holy Spirit to be sealed within us, since the event His presence guaranteed will have taken place. So during the 70th week of Daniel the Holy Spirit, having been released from the Church, will resume a ministry on Earth similar to the one He performed in Old Testament times. Once again He’ll come upon people, and be with them, but won’t be sealed within them.

Where Did You Get That Outfit?
Salvation for Tribulation believers is explained in verses like this. Behold, I come like a thief! Blessed is he who stays awake and keeps his clothes with him, so that he may not go naked and be shamefully exposed. (Rev. 16:15)

If you’re familiar with the symbolic reference to clothing, you know what this verse means. If not, let’s review it. Isaiah 61:10 says, I delight greatly in the LORD; my soul rejoices in my God. For he has clothed me with garments of salvation and arrayed me in a robe of righteousness, as a bridegroom adorns his head like a priest, and as a bride adorns herself with her jewels. Just as clothing provides physical covering, righteousness provides spiritual covering. God has clothed us in garments of salvation and a robe of righteousness.

Look at Zechariah 3:3-4. In Zechariah’s vision, Joshua, the High Priest is standing before the angel of the Lord, obviously Jesus. Now Joshua was dressed in filthy clothes as he stood before the angel. The angel said to those who were standing before him, “Take off his filthy clothes.”
Then he said to Joshua, “See, I have taken away your sin, and I will put rich garments on you.” Removing his filthy clothes symbolized taking away his sin. Putting rich garments on him made him righteous.

Rev 19:8 tells us that the Bride was given garments of fine linen bright and clean to wear and that the fine linen stands for her righteousness. But again, the clothing isn’t hers. It was given to her.

This symbolic use of clothing is the whole issue in the parable of the wedding banquet (Matt 22:1-14) The King (God) prepared a wedding banquet (Kingdom Age) for his son (Jesus) and sent his servants (prophets) to inform the invited guests (Israel) that all was ready. After first ignoring the invitation, they finally set upon the servants he sent and killed them.

Enraged, the King sent his armies and burned their city (Jerusalem). Then he sent his servants to find anyone they could and invite them to the banquet. The servants gathered up everybody they could find (gentiles) and the banquet was begun. When the King came in he noticed a man not dressed in wedding clothes. When the man had no excuse for his improper attire, he was thrown out into the darkness.

In the context of the parable the wedding clothes represent the righteousness with which God clothes us when we accept His invitation into His kingdom (2 Cor. 5:21) The guest trying to gain admittance wearing his own clothes (in his own righteousness) was found unworthy and excluded.

What’s The Meaning Of This?
From all this we can safely assume that the Lord isn’t speaking of literal clothing in Rev. 16:15, but of the spiritual clothing that represents salvation and righteousness. Rather than having guaranteed salvation for Tribulation believers and assuming responsibility for their safety like a shepherd for his sheep, He warns them to stay awake and alert lest they be caught naked when He comes. It’s a warning that maintaining their salvation is their responsibility and if they’re not careful they could miss out. This warning is given on the threshold of the Bowl Judgments, the final and most devastating cycle of God’s Wrath.

We get another clue of this in the verse I quoted at the beginning of this article. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved. (Matt 24:12-13) As He listed the signs indicating that the End of the Age had come, the Lord alluded to the fact that Tribulation believers will have to stand firm to the end in order to insure their salvation.

The clearest indication of the Tribulation believer’s exposure is found in the Parable of the 10 Virgins. (Matt. 25:1-13) The timing of this parable is identified as just following the 2nd Coming. (Time references from Matt. 24:29, 30, 36, & 25:1 make this clear.) The 10 virgins are all waiting for the Bridegroom (Jesus) to return. All 10 have both lamps and oil at the beginning. When oil is used symbolically it always refers to the Holy Spirit. The five who ran out of oil symbolize Tribulation believers who let their faith lapse by not remaining spiritually awake and alert. At the end they wake up, discover their peril, and rush about trying to renew their faith. While they’re working to get back into a right relationship with Jesus, He returns and the door to salvation is closed to them. Forever.

How Many Brides Are There?
Some try to make this into a parable about the Church, always symbolized by a bride. There is a connection between virgin and bride due to the fact that in those days brides were nearly always virgins. But the Greek word simply means “someone who has never had sexual intercourse.” And when used in connection with the Church the word is always singular, such as in 2 Cor 11:2. “For I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy; for I betrothed you to one husband, so that to Christ I might present you as a pure virgin.”

Through out the parable, no bride is never mentioned, and certainly could not be excluded by her husband from the wedding banquet, a meal, by the way, that follows the wedding ceremony.
So the timing, the grammar, and the context all testify against interpreting this parable as a warning to the Church. The 10 virgins represent Tribulation survivors trying to gain entrance to the Messianic Kingdom, or Millennium. Some had maintained their faith and were welcomed in. Others had not and were refused admittance.

The parable ends with the warning, “Therefore keep watch, because you do not know the day or the hour.” (Matt 25:13) This warning is given three times in the span of 23 verses, all dealing with the time of His coming. Tribulation believers must remain alert at all times and guard their position carefully. It will take a tremendous amount of faith to sustain oneself through this time, and each believer is responsible for keeping his or her own faith strong.

Some try to say that since the Lord warned them about the day and hour being unknown, He must be talking about the Rapture. After all, won’t people be able to count off 1260 days from the Abomination of Desolation to the 2nd Coming? It turns out that it’s not quite that easy. The Great Tribulation will last 1260 days, it’s true, and immediately afterward the Sun will be darkened, the Moon not give its light, and stars will fall from the sky. (Matt. 24:29) This will be the signal that the Great Tribulation has ended.

Next the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky. The Greek word for sign means that a symbol or token will appear alerting people of a coming event. Sometime after the sign appears, people will see Him coming on the clouds.
So there’s a sequence of events that will take place, one following the other. But we’re not told the duration of any one of them. Imagine the suspense that will create on Earth, knowing that the End has come but not knowing exactly when the Lord will actually return. By the signs, they’ll know He’s due, but they won’t know the day or hour.

Personally, I think that the 10 virgins represent people on Earth who will awaken when they see the sign, and will know that the Bridegroom is coming. That’s when some of them will realize that their faith has lapsed and will begin frantically trying to prepare themselves. But alas, He comes before they’re ready and it’s too late.

What’s The Point?
It seems clear then, that salvation in the post church period will be a much more tenuous situation than the one we enjoy, devoid of any guarantees and requiring great personal responsibility in the face of devastating judgments and relentless persecution. Even though evidence of God’s existence will abound in the judgments that regularly shake the Earth to its very foundations, maintaining one’s faith during this time will be no small task. This realization adds great meaning to the Lord’s promise to Church Age believers. “Blessed are those who have not seen and yet have believed.”

The time is short. If you’ve been putting off making that final surrender of your will to His, better do it now. Believe me, you don’t want to risk the alternative. 09-02-06

Here's another article from the other author mentioned, Jack Kinsella:





I would like to begin by stating that I am not telling people that they don't need salvation today. However, I am a realist, not an idealist. Reality dictates that after the rapture, people will be left behind because of their own unbelief, procrastination, or pride. The point of this article is not to reassure people that they can wait to believe in the Lord until after the Rapture happens. It is simply a look at what the scriptures have to say about salvation during the Tribulation. Those people 'lucky enough' to actually live through that time of wrath will have the opportunity to repent, but they also need to know that they will likely be martyred for their faith. It will be a long, hard road.

The foundation of our relationship with the Lord is faith, not proof. "Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Hebrews 11:1). The Lord asks us to have faith in Him, and to trust Him by faith alone. It is my belief that, by rapturing the church as He said He would, God is making one last attempt to prove His deity to those who resisted. God's purpose is ALWAYS redemption. While He IS removing the church to protect them from His wrath, He is also reaching out to a lost and dying world"

As described by Jesus in the book of Matthew, the Tribulation will be a time that has never been seen by this world and never will be seen again (24:21). The rapture, in itself, will be a major calamity unlike anything the world has ever seen. There is no guarantee that those who are unsaved at the time of that great event will live through it long enough to repent!

Lately, I have seen some differing opinions on the issue of salvation during the Tribulation. Some people believe that only the Jews in general will be saved. Others believe that only the 144,000 Jews mentioned in Revelation will be saved. Still others believe that no one will be saved during the Tribulation, however, I cannot find scriptural support for those positions and during my study on this topic, what I did find actually disproved all of these ideas.

Let's take a look at what the Bible has to say about this issue. (All following emphases are mine.)


1. What does God want?

Malachi 3:6a For I [am] the LORD, I change not

2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

God is not an ever-changing God. He is now as He was and as He will be. It is His desire that all men come to salvation. These verses prove that His purpose is to redeem the lost. We can trust that does not change because of the rapture, but, rather, the rapture is because of that purpose.


2. Can people repent during the Tribulation?

Revelation 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

Revelation 16:9 And men were scorched with great heat, and blasphemed the name of God, which hath power over these plagues: and they repented not to give him glory.

Revelation 16:11 And blasphemed the God of heaven because of their pains and their sores, and repented not of their deeds.

From these passages, we can see that mankind will be given the opportunity to repent during the Tribulation. These are but a few of the references found in Revelation that show repentance and the lack thereof during the Tribulation period. Therefore, we can be confidant that God's offer of salvation and forgiveness will still be available.


3. Who are the Tribulation Saints?

Revelation 7:9 After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

Revelation 7:13-14 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

The people who repent and turn to God during the Tribulation are called the Tribulation Saints. First we see that they are a multitude from all nations, of all peoples and tongues. Therefore the Tribulation saints will not be limited to only the Jews or the 144,000. In addition, they will come out of the Great Tribulation, therefore they can not be the Old Testament saints or the Church. It is simply logical to believe that "the multitude that no man can number" are the people who turned to the Lord during the Tribulation."


4. What is the purpose of the two witnesses?

Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

The purpose of the two witnesses is to preach the gospel to all the world during the Tribulation. The fact that the Lord has seen fit to send these two men to accomplish this further clarifies that there is the opportunity for repentance and salvation during the Tribulation.


5. Is there a point of no return?

Revelation 13:16-17 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

Revelation 14:9-10 And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand, The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

During the Tribulation, all people will be faced with a destiny-sealing choice. This is what is referred to as the "mark of the beast". Scripture indicates that it is tied to the economy, as no man will be able to buy or sell unless he accepts this mark. Additionally we can see that the mark represents the worship of the Antichrist and the acceptance of his reign on earth. Much speculation abounds about what this mark will be--ranging from a tattoo to a computer chip--but truth be told, until it is instituted, no one will know for sure what it will be. What is important to note here is that the acceptance of the mark will be a willful action and direct rejection of the Lord. The wrath of God will be poured out on those who accept this mark. This passage indicates that it will be hell on earth for those who accept this mark.

Revelation 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

Revelation 19:20 And the beast was taken, and with him the false prophet that wrought miracles before him, with which he deceived them that had received the mark of the beast, and them that worshipped his image. These both were cast alive into a lake of fire burning with brimstone.

This passage states that the Tribulation Saints who will be martyred for proclaiming the name of Christ will live and reign throughout the millennium. It also states that those who have taken the mark will not be a part of this group--their fate is determined as well. The distinction that the Lord is making here is that the mark will be a defining moment--the point of no return. Once this decision is made, fate is sealed for eternity.


6. Who will populate the Millennium?

Zechariah 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.

At the end of the Tribulation when Christ returns to set up His millennial reign, the earth will be populated by those who believe in Him and survived the Tribulation.


7. Who is the restrainer?

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.

2 Thessalonians 2:6-7 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.

This scripture shows that the Antichrist cannot rise to power or be revealed until the restrainer is taken out of the way. One prevalent theory holds that the Holy Spirit is the restrainer that will be taken away, thereby making salvation impossible. However, reading from the book of Joel, that theory is not acceptable.

Joel 2:28-29 And it shall come to pass afterward, [that] I will pour out my spirit upon all flesh; and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, your old men shall dream dreams, your young men shall see visions: And also upon the servants and upon the handmaids in those days will I pour out my spirit.

Joel 2:32 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the LORD shall be delivered: for in mount Zion and in Jerusalem shall be deliverance, as the LORD hath said, and in the remnant whom the LORD shall call.

This passage shows us not that only will the Holy Spirit remain on the earth, but also that the Lord is now and will be willing then to forgive those who repent. The Holy Spirit is omnipresent and will remain with the believers throughout the Tribulation. Without His influence, no one would be able to be saved! The restrainer referred to by Paul in this letter to the Thessalonians is the workings of the Holy Spirit in the church.


8. What about the great delusion?

2Thessalonians 2:9-12 [Even him], whose coming is after the working of Satan with all power and signs and lying wonders, And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

Wow! Now there's some scary stuff. Paul is saying here that the Lord will send a great delusion to those who rejected His truth so that they will believe the lies of the Antichrist. Will those whose hearts are hardened to the message of salvation today still be hardened to it tomorrow? Romans 1:28 tells us that God is patient but He has his limits--He will turn over a stubborn person to a debased mind.

The big question here is, what truth did they receive? In other words, what did they know?

Let's take a look at five distinct representatives of society.

Case 1: This is an Orthodox Jew with an MBA from Yeshiva University (Jewish College). He knows all about Jesus, but from a historical perspective. He believes that Jesus was just a man that the Gentiles elevated to God status. Out of the blue, I asked him one day what he would think if the Messiah came and it turns out to have been Jesus all along. His response? "If he shows up with holes in his hands, I'm not buying it."

Case 2: This is a devout Muslim. He knows about Jesus, as Islam teaches that Jesus was one in a line of great prophets. Islam also teaches that Jesus (not Mohammed) will return at the end-of-days and gather the faithful to Allah. He also believes that Jesus was not God but, rather, just a man.

Case 3: This person knows the story as well. She is a scientist and rejects the need for God in her life. She can see the benefit for others, just not for herself.

Case 4: A former co-worker of mine is a self-proclaimed Druid. He outwardly rejects the notion of God altogether. He says he wants nothing to do with a God that will allow bad things to happen. Case closed; end of discussion. When his wife went into the hospital for surgery, he was asked priest or rabbi by the admitting nurse. He told her to, "bring me a bush to hug".

Case 5: This is the all paths to God person. This person believes that, just as the Lord confused the tongues at the tower of Babel, He also sent different messengers to different people at different times. Jesus, Buddha, and Mohammed are all a part of the Godhead as well as the coming Jewish Messiah, whose role it will be to wrap it all up into a nice neat little package. Two years ago, this described me. Sadly, this is also the fastest growing "religion" on the planet today, and is sweeping college campuses like a storm under the name Baha'i.

Assuming these cases are symbolic of the prevalent mentalities in the world today, and representative of people who do not come to repentance prior to the Tribulation, are they all damned? That sure is a lot of people now, isn't it?

No one knows what God's litmus test is regarding the "what did you really know about the gospel" question. During the Tribulation, He will send a deluding influence which will allow people to be tricked, but only if their hearts are hardened to the truth.

If you are reading this and the Rapture has already happened, do not be fooled! Earnestly pray and ask the Lord to show you the truth. Keep your heart open to the answer. If you honestly want to know, just ask Him and He'll tell you. Here is some additional information that will explain in greater detail.



So what's the bottom line?

This is why it is so important to come to faith in Jesus now. Better to be safe than sorry!

Trust me on this one--hedging your bet by waiting on the Rapture is a risky position to be in. I can assure you that you don't want to be driving down the highway being followed by an 18-wheeler driven by a born-again Christian when the Rapture happens. By the time you realize what hit you, it will be too late.

Are you really willing to gamble on the odds that you will live long enough to get a second chance?

raptureready.com

I disagree with some of Jack Kelleys teachings and find that some of the things he teaches is not scriptural. I will say this. Before accepting this as truth do a study on the work and ministry of the Holy Spirit.

The part that really stands out and sends up red flags is this statement.

"It seems that Eternal Security begins and ends with the Church."

Eternal security begins and ends with Jesus. Who is the author and finisher of every persons faith who accepts Him as Lord and Savior. One must be born again according to John 3:3 in the church age and after the church age. I find nothing in scripture where Jesus said otherwise.

Romans 10:9 Says; You must confess with your mouth and believe in your heart that he was raised from the dead to be saved. Nothing says this is only for the church age.

Eternal security is for everyone who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ. Only those who reject Him are condemned according to John 3:18-19

I am believing by faith that even if my children and my loved ones who are here after the rapture, that they too may have eternal life if they get saved.

It is by His grace and nothing we can do can alter what He does through the Person of the Holy Spirit.

Thanks Carmela for finding these commentaries. I will look more into this as time draws near.

I want everyone to know that I do not have a problem with these type of things being posted as long as it stays within the guidelines of this forum. What's important is that we stand in agreement in the pre tribulation and the Rapture of the church.

There will always be mysteries that we will never know until we get to heaven. This is one of those areas that might fall into that. The only thing that concerns me is the Salvation issue. Is this altering the Doctrine of salvation in any way?

I was taught that there is five essential Doctrines of the Christian faith and those will never change.

Here they are:
1. The Trinity: God is one "What" and three "Who's" with each "Who" possessing all the attributes of Deity and personality.

2. The Person of Jesus Christ: Jesus is 100% God and 100% man for all eternity.

3. The Second Coming: Jesus Christ is coming bodily to earth to rule and judge.

4. Salvation: It is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone.

5. The Scripture: It is entirely inerrant and sufficient for all Christian life.

In this doctrine it also involves the Doctrine of the Holy Spirit which you may find all these doctrinal truths here: most-controversial-issues-in-the-church-today-t1790.html?hilit=essential doctrine