Christ First Forum

by **Carmela** » 06 Dec 2008, 10:22

THANK YOU for that, Frank. It does clear things up a bit. And in this light I can understand someone not being able to lose their salvation. Someone once told me that accepting Christ as savior is the only thing that needs to be done for salvation and that everything else is "works". That sounds right but then you think of someone like my husband. He is presently living a homosexual lifestyle (as you know). He has walked away from God. He was heavily annointed in his music ministry. His ministry was powerful. He has accepted Jesus Christ as his personal savior but is unable to give this sin over to Him. I would never have doubted his salvation in the past. Is what he's doing now "works" but his soul is saved? Is he the classic example of being turned over to satan for the destruction of his flesh, yet his soul will be saved?"
It's people like Joe that make me think that you can lose your salvation. And yet, even in his mess, he tells me that he prays. . . .I do hope so. His body is certainly being destroyed. Maybe that's what it takes for God to bring him back to Himself. He'll be saved but at Judgement Day his works will be burned up and he will then see the life that God had planned for him and how, because of disobedience, he lost the Will of God in his life. What an incredibly sad moment that will be. Praise God that He will wipe away every tear because I'm sure that all of us have moments where we could have done better for Jesus and didn't and we will be very sad about it.

by **Remnant** » 06 Dec 2008, 22:21

Carmela wrote:THANK YOU for that, Frank. It does clear things up a bit. And in this light I can understand someone not being able to lose their salvation. Someone once told me that accepting Christ as savior is the only thing that needs to be done for salvation and that everything else is "works". That sounds right but then you think of someone like my husband. He is presently living a homosexual lifestyle (as you know). He has walked away from God. He was heavily anointed in his music ministry. His ministry was powerful. He has accepted Jesus Christ as his personal savior but is unable to give this sin over to Him. I would never have doubted his salvation in the past. Is what he's doing now "works" but his soul is saved? Is he the classic example of being turned over to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, yet his soul will be saved?"
It's people like Joe that make me think that you can lose your salvation. And yet, even in his mess, he tells me that he prays. . . .I do hope so. His body is certainly being destroyed. Maybe that's what it takes for God to bring him back to Himself. He'll be saved but at Judgement Day his works will be burned up and he will then see the life that God had planned for him and how, because of disobedience, he lost the Will of God in his life. What an incredibly sad moment that will be. Praise God that He will wipe away every tear because I'm sure that all of us have moments where we could have done better for Jesus and didn't and we will be very sad about it.

Carmela, Their is a lot to ponder here and I will get back with you concerning Joe. I know how disheartening this must be for you.

I am still praying for Joe and that God would reveal to you the truth of this whole situation and that you will find peace.

I want you to concider another scripture that deals with salvation.
1 John 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

by **Carmela** » 07 Dec 2008, 09:33

What do you think of this article, Frank. I just posted the link.

http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/homosex ... e-rapture/

by **Remnant** » 07 Dec 2008, 16:49

Carmela wrote:What do you think of this article, Frank. I just posted the link.

http://gracethrufaith.com/selah/homosex ... e-rapture/

Carmela, Some things I agree on but Jack Kelly is one of those people who think that grace alone is enough! If you know what i mean? He reminds me of Bob George a little, if you know who I am talking about. He also is one of those who teaches that we are not to ever make a judgment about others salvation, no matter the fruit they bear. He has conveyed that if one says they are are a christian then who are we to judge other wise.
Sure we all struggle with sin after salvation but I do not believe according to scripture that we can continually habitually sin.

2 Corinians 5:17 says:
17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new

When God God saved me according to John 3:1-8 Their was a new birth. The old Frank died and I was reborn or regenerated.
1 There was a man of the Pharisees named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews.
2 This man came to Jesus by night and said to Him, “Rabbi, we know that You are a teacher come from God; for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with him.”
3 Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
4 Nicodemus said to Him, “How can a man be born when he is old? Can he enter a second time into his mother’s womb and be born?”
5 Jesus answered, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God. 6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
7 Do not marvel that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
8 The wind blows where it wishes, and you hear the sound of it, but cannot tell where it comes from and where it goes. So is everyone who is born of the Spirit.”
The bible also says that when this happens it is no longer us who lives but Christ who lives in us through the indwelling Spirit.
We are no longer slaves to sin but slaves to righteousness.

Romans 6: 15-23
15 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not!
16 Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness?
17 But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered.
18 And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness.
19 I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness.
20 For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness.
21 What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death.
22 But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life.
23 For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.I know this when I was saved, I was no longer under the bondage of sin and through the convicting power of the Holy Spirit that lives inside of me. He keeps me out of that bondage. I am now a servant of righteousness!

When I was saved, something happen and now I know He touched me and made me whole.

I no longer desire to do the things I use to do. My love for sin has become a hatred of it. I love to meditate on His word and through his power live for Him.

Yes I still mess up, but praise be to God, I don't get very far without my Lord doing what He left the Holy Spirit in me to do.

I am not perfect but He is perfecting me!

I want to share with you another scripture that I find very comforting when I start straying from the Lord.

John 8: 34-36
34 Jesus answered them, “Most assuredly, I say to you, whoever commits sin is a slave of sin.
35 And a slave does not abide in the house forever, but a son abides forever.
36 Therefore if the Son makes you free, you shall be free indeed.
My dear sister Carmela, I can only offer what I know from scripture and I hope in some way this helps. Some things I will never discuss openly on this forum for I have tremendous respect for you as my sister and fellow servant. This is a sensitive matter for you with your husbands lifestyle and I will always keep this forever in my prayers.

by **Carmela** » 07 Dec 2008, 17:13

Thank you. . .

I'm going to stop dwelling so much on Joe's salvation (or lack of) and just stick to praying for the Lord's will to be done in his life and then have the faith that the Lord will answer prayer and Joe will make it to heaven!

by **elect777** » 07 Dec 2008, 19:07

Remnant wrote:
elect777 wrote:I believe all from the beginning were written in, for God would have all to be saved, He is no respecter of persons and John 3:16 & 17 tells it all..

Remnant, there is a Scripture that has me baffled
Where it says they wonder who's name was Not written in the Book of life from the beginning..
Enlighten me on this, what I'm I missing, or is this just the thinking of those unbelievers??

You must be thinking about Revelation 17:8. Revelation 17:8 (NKJV)
8 The beast that you saw was, and is not, and will ascend out of the bottomless pit and go to perdition. And those who dwell on the earth will marvel, whose names are not written in the Book of Life from the foundation of the world, when they see the beast that was, and is.

It simply means a lot of people are going to be surprised when they find out who is saved and who are not saved and who will be in heaven and who will not be.

Here is another scripture that confirms what I have said about the book of life.
Revelation 3:5
5 He who overcomes shall be clothed in white garments, and I will not blot out his name from the Book of Life; but I will confess his name before My Father and before His angels.

I understand that part, but they said they wondered whos name was NOT written from the foundation.. that implies they believe some people were not written in the book from the very beginning

I thought maybe this is unsaved people speaking thinking God had from the beginning chosen some to be saved,,
There is another scripture that has me baffled
It reads something like this
God chose some for burning...
Like God is the potter, He chooses who He makes for what.. I got this messed up I know, I will try and find it.. I need closesure on these thing

While I am asking questions I have ask others and they could not answer.. didn't have a clue
Here is a Scripture that ... I'll get it.. be right back.... K I'm back the Verse is in EZK 9:6 this concerns me, young , old, I understand, but little children.. is this because they were never introduced to Yeshua.. and if left to live they would not ever after that time,,,??

by **Carmela** » 07 Dec 2008, 20:30

I know what you mean, Janet. Scripture like Ez. 9:6 bothers me too but it's in line with God's judgements like the flood and at the end in Revelation. But at least the little children go to heaven!

by **Remnant** » 07 Dec 2008, 20:34

While I am asking questions I have ask others and they could not answer.. didn't have a clue
Here is a Scripture that ... I'll get it.. be right back.... K I'm back the Verse is in EZK 9:6 this concerns me, young , old, I understand, but little children.. is this because they were never introduced to Yeshua.. and if left to live they would not ever after that time,,,??

When judgment comes and the wrath of Gods falls, Just like in the days when they disobeyed God and He brought about judgment it came to all, and that included children. Only those who are found faithful will He spare. That same as the rapture and the great tribulation!

by **JWayne** » 11 Jan 2009, 22:02

John 3:16 (New King James Version)
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.

True salvation is eternal, forever, infinite, everlasting and nowhere in the bible does it say or even indicate otherwise.

Matt. 24:24

For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect.

John 6:45

It is written in the prophets, ‘And they shall all be taught by God.Therefore everyone who has heard and learned from the Father comes to Me.

John 10:27,28

27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me.

28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand.

John 11:25-29

26 And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

27 She said to Him, “Yes, Lord, I believe that You are the Christ, the Son of God, who is to come into the world.” 28 And when she had said these things, she went her way and secretly called Mary her sister, saying, “The Teacher has come and is calling for you.” 29 As soon as she heard that, she arose quickly and came to Him.

Romans 6:23

Titus 1:2

1 John 5:11

John 6:47

John 6:36

1 Chronicles 17:10-14

Isaiah 55:3

John 5:24, 28-29

by **elect777** » 12 Jan 2009, 09:24

I remain in my belief that God would have all to be saved, and from the foundation entered everyones name in the Book of life, and will knock on the door of everyones heart for a time, at what point in time He leaves, I do not know..
However, I believe once a person sureners their heart to Yeshua, they are saved for all time, no man can pluck them from His hand, if their name is not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, then they never truely gave their heart, because they never made Him Lord of the life, with God its all or nothing,Yeshua can not be Savivour without being Lord.
Those that hear the Salvation of the Lord, but continue on the wide road, though hearing, and knowing, and believing but hold back from recieving with not be in the Lambs Book of Life, they may go to Churcvh three times a week, sing in the Church Choir, Teach Sunday School, do all kinds of work in the Church, having a form of godliness but yet be unsaved, there will even be Pastors not written in the Lambs Book of Life, I once would have denie this to be so, but its not about what you do, its who you are inside, I once believe all Pastoprs to be saved, I might as well been a Catholic, because they hold the Pope right up there next to God, and no one is right up there next to God but God, He shares His Throne with no one, it findly dawn on me some years ago, that a Pastor, Preacher is not more saved than their Congregation, they were and are saved by the same Saviour, and the same way , there is One God, One Saviour, He died One death, and He did it once and for all.
This came to me when I was told by one of my Officers that the Pope was right up there next to God, . I told him , no he is not, nor is anyone more Saved than anyone else, it was then I think I findly admitted that I was holding to to higher expectation of Pastors, was in fact puting their Salvation above everyone else that was not a Pastor, no one is more Saved, they may be more Spiritually mature, they may hold a different position, have a different responsibility, but we will all give an account to God.
But back to OSAS no one is more saved than another, but whoever is saved , is saved, for all time.
Some have a religious experience, may continue to go to Church and be involved in all kinds of good things in the Church, and be just as unsaved as they ever were, they never recieved the circumcision of the heart made by the Holy Spirit of God, Salvation is not of the mind, its of the heart, its spiritual , not fleshly, but with the Circumcision of the heart one does have a renewing of the mind , because they are washed in the blood of Yeshua...
OSAS if one makes the alter of the Church as their time of salvation, and leaves the Cross of Christ Yshua out, they left the cause of Christ Yeshua out, Christ Yeshua was not slain on an alter, but on the Calvarys Tree
There is nothing wrong with praying in Church, I have many times, but more where I stood, than I did at the alter, I pray in spirit, I did not have to have an alter, I have the One that paid it all @ Calvary, somehow I think people are more religious than anything else, religion can not save us, the Church can not save us, if it was so, Christ would have not needed to come and die, there were religions, there were churchs ( Temples ) and they had alters, Calvary had a Old Rugged Tree , and that is where Christ died for me, onece and for all, whosoever may come, God not having more respect for one more than another, gave His Son to pay the price for all that called upon His Name, the Name of Christ Yeshua .
You know somehow I get the impresion that some think because they weresaved first, they are more saved, in fact I think those who came later think the same thing, but they are not, Christ died once and for all..
I understood the Scripture in the Bible about the man who came to work after the others, and was paid the same wage, he was paid the same , because everyomne is promised the same frtom God, no one has to catch up, work over time , I think sometimes we in our selfrighteousness run many away, because we give the impression our Salvation being before theirs gives us special merits or something, they walk away thinking, time is short, I can never catch up, I got to much to learn etc. etc. its not about anything they have to do, just believe and recieve, Yeshua did all therest, and He does not require everyone to be on the same level of knowlege, just same understanding He is Lord, He is Saviour , He paid it all..there is no catching up, the more one learns, the more they know, the more they grow spiritually, but they are not more saved, if so, its about them, and not about Him..
Well I know I got off on other areas, I believe one is saved by grace, God does not give and then take away, but one can hold Him at arms length, have all the looks of a Christian, ( the form of godliness )those that speak much from the head, have head knowlege, its what in their heart that counts for Salvation, and that is the Holy Spirit of God

by **Gracealone** » 09 Feb 2009, 19:47

Carmela wrote:In the following Scriptures, names being blotted out of the Book of Life leads me to believe that salvation can be lost. Ps 69:28, Ex 32:33, Ex32:32, Rev 3:5 and 22:19. It has always been my understanding that once we accept God's gift of salvation through Jesus Christ, our name is written in the Book of Life. So, if we are written in the book of life, then evidentally our name can be blotted out. Aaron's name was blotted out because of his sin with the golden calf, but later was rewritten in after he was forgiven.

I don't believe we can lose our salvation because it says in The Bible that He, is able to keep us from falling.
The book of' life' here is not a book of 'eternal life', but names of all who are brought into this world.
We have a natural life, and by accepting Christ as Lord, we are given eternal life.
How long is eternal?
Heb. 6:4-6
Tells us ,if we could fall away, it would be impossible to renew us again
for we would have to crucify Christ all over again.

WE are saved by the power and grace of God, and we are kept by the grace,and power of God.
It is all to his Glory, and none of ours..... I believe the word affirms this to be true.

Past, present, and future.......Once, for All.

by **Jeani** » 09 Feb 2009, 22:48

If salvation could be lost by what one does, then 'why' would God send His Son to die on the cross for our sins?

Jesus was the only way we can enter the kingdom of heaven.

Sin cannot enter heaven, so Christ loved us sooo much that He was willing to die for us, to be able to enter the gates of heaven.

Once we accept Christ, we will always be God's child.

Just like our own children when they are disobedient.

They commit sin,but they will always be our children.

Nothing can change that because of the 'blood.'

When Jesus died for us, He applied the blood for our sins.

When someone accepts Christ,and they sin, they fall out of fellowship with the Lord.

They don't lose their salvation,but their fellowship with the Lord.

Once saved brings a 'new creature',and a 'new nature.'

I don't believe one can continue in sin,and be saved.

David sinned,but he repented, and turn back to God.

He suffered great consquences from his sin.

I'm sooo glad I don't have to worry about my salvation because Christ did it all on that cross for you, me,and others~

by **Ritsuka** » 18 Feb 2009, 02:56

WHOA! that was some heavy reading for me :/
Personally,I believe that salvation is for forever.We may backslide or drift away,but so long as we repent,we will be forgiven. I don't think we can lose our salvation,but we sure can stray,just like the prodigal son.

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