Christ First Forum

by **Remnant** » 06 Aug 2010, 15:43

IS TONGUES AND BAPTISM NECESSARY FOR SALVATION?

If we are saved by grace before baptism by faith (Ephesians 2:8,9) then baptism cannot convey to us the Spirit no matter what name is said over a person. If you are saved by baptism, (by calling on Jesus name) then it was not Grace through faith that saved but an ordinance you had faith in. or works of your own. If it was at your baptism you had called on him for the first time to save you this would not make sense, since it is our response to the gospel message by faith that saves.

Oneness Pentecostals (a separate group of Pentecostals) teach that "speaking in tongues" must accompany the conversion of all Christians to prove they have the Spirit. The process to salvation is repentance, faith, baptism in Jesus name, then comes the waiting for the Acts 2 experience. Either before or after is obedience to commands and works. The Oneness Pentecostals make tongues as the proof that one possesses salvation. Many wait for this evidence to occur and when it does not they look desperately to find whatever flaw or sin is holding back His Spirit from coming. I can’t think of something more disheartening and false than to think your not saved because you haven’t had this experience of tongues.

John the Baptist never spoke another tongue yet he was filled with the spirit from his mothers womb. The book of Acts gives us the normal pattern for receiving the Holy Spirit. One thing becomes clear as the texts are looked at carefully, there is no consistent pattern of reception. In order for something to be normative it needs to be consistent and a common thing to all, clearly it is not as proposed by the Oneness view.

Acts 10 opposes the view of having to be baptized first to receive the Spirit as Oneness claims. Are we to believe God poured out his Spirit in the same way as Pentecost on people whose sins were not yet forgiven? Clearly the Spirit is given by grace.

Acts 2 Death and resurrection are proclaimed 3,000 are saved. as Jews they publicly declare their allegiance to Christ by being baptized and receive the spirit. No tongues for the 3,000.This is important in that so many make tongues the required manifestation to show they were saved. Nowhere does anyone refer to Acts 2 as the model for each time a group or people were saved. Only in Acts 11 does Peter recall what happened to them in the upper room.

Acts 3:18-19 Christ’s death and repentance is the focus for the forgiveness of their sins. In Acts 4:2-4 Jesus & the resurrection is preached, not baptism & again they believed the word & 5,000 were saved. There was no tongues , and no baptism mentioned.

Acts 4:31 tells us they spoke the word boldly when they were filled with the spirit. no tongues, and no baptism mentioned

Acts 8:17 Peter and John come to the Samaritans who had already received the word of God & were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus and still did not have the spirit. ( Peter needed to be there, he was present for all three groups : Jews, Samaritans and Gentiles) there were no tongues.

Acts 10:43 Peter says "To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Acts 11:16-18 Peter recounts the Lord saying about the difference between water baptism and spirit baptism. Vs 17" if therefore God gave them the same gift as he did unto us, when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ;"

Acts 15 the Jerusalem council was called because some men said that certain parts of the law needed to be obeyed. Vs 8 Peter recounts how the gentiles heard the word of the gospel and believed, God seeing their hearts acknowledged them by giving them the H. Spirit just as he did us. And making no distinction between us & them, purifying their hearts by faith vs.11" We believe that through the grace of the Lord Jesus we shall be saved in the same manner". Notice that Peter makes it clear its by grace and that the gentiles were actually saved being baptized in the Spirit before any confession or baptism. (1 Cor.12:13) Everyone enters into Christ the same way then and today.Eph.1:13 tells us when they believed in the gospel (1 Cor.15:1-4) they were sealed by the Holy Spirit.

Acts 16:31 the Philipian jailer asks what must I do to be saved ? answer believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved, you & your household. then they spoke the word of the Lord to both him & his household. No tongues, no baptism until later

What we find in the book of Acts is no set formulae for the giving of the Spirit. What was required in all the accounts was faith. Tongues were not present except in a few instances.

Acts 19 vs.5 they were baptized in the name of the Lord. Jews who only received Johns baptism had not heard of Christ’s death and resurrection nor Pentecost. It is Paul who initiates the conversation on the Holy Spirit. He finds that they are not disciples of Christ but of John, years after they had not heard that the one John was pointing to had already come. After receiving the Gospel they are baptized Paul lays hands on them the Holy Spirit comes upon them and they speak in tongues and prophecy. They did not seek after the Spirit as the Oneness Pentecostals are told, it was a natural occurrence. Not one instance do we see anyone laboring for the Spirit. Why was the Spirit given after Paul laid hands on them. It was to illustrate that they were no longer to follow John the Baptizer but the apostles who now had the leadership role for Israel. The Church with the apostles as their leaders replaced the Sanhedrin and Pharisees and even John.

In each case when tongues are manifested there are Jews present (sometimes in unbelief). The conclusion can only be that that tongues were given primarily as a sign to unbelieving Jews or to those new people groups entering the body. As with Acts 10 they were in unbelief that the gentiles could be saved and so God gave them the Holy Spirit and as proof gave them languages unlearned for evidence to those present. Their conclusion was that they received what they had at Pentecost. In Acts 19 The unbelieving Jews that were only water baptized spoke in tongues was proof to them that Jesus died and resurrected and the Holy Spirit had come.

Tongues is neither the initial evidence of their salvation anymore than prophecy would be.[/u] If we take the Oneness Pentecostal attitude to its conclusion …then one must have hands laid on them to receive the spirit and that they must be in groups of twelve to thousands like the other occurrences with tongues instead of single persons. One might even add that fire should appear over their heads as it did at Pentecost. People try to insert other incidents but they are all arguments from silence and are not Scripturally consistent or verifiable .

Acts 26:18 "that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. that is in Jesus Christ. The majority of teaching of how to be spiritually born is by faith. The order today is faith, the receiving of the Holy Spirit and our response in baptism. So with a handful of scripture on baptism with over 240 on faith and believe, not including those about Christ’s death we can see how important it is to rightly divide the word.

Is tongues necessary for salvation? No! otherwise we will have to eliminate most of the salvation’s in the book of Acts. It is an evidence but not THE evidence for all.

ARE TONGUES THE PROOF OF THE HOLY SPIRITS PRESENCE? No!

Eph.1:13" In whom ye also trusted, after that you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: having believed, you were sealed with the holy Spirit of promise," (2 Cor. 1:22)

Gal.3:2"Did you Received the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Faith comes by hearing the word." Baptism is an act of faith which must be present before they are submerged, notice they received the Spirit by faith, by believing not by anything else.

1 Cor.12:13"For by one spirit are we all baptized into one body." Not by one baptism do we enter. It is spirit baptism that counts.

All believers receive the baptism of the Spirit to be in Christ. This takes place at the moment of salvation when one exercises faith in Christ. What we are commanded is to be continually filled with the Spirit. Not to seek for the baptism as something we don't have after we believe.

Tongues is not the proof this has happened because the very same Chpt. that we are told of being baptized with the Holy Spirit we are also told not all speak in tongues. Eph.5:19 tells us if one is filled with the Spirit they will speak in Psalms and hymns and spiritual songs- no tongues are mentioned.

Tongues is only one manifestation of the Spirits influence. It can also be prophecy and boldness in speaking the word (in the correct manner). It can be a great harvest of people coming to Christ as in an evangelistic crusade (like Peters first sermon).

Its not tongues that is proof of our salvation but the Holy Spirit who produces the fruit of the Spirit.

Gal. 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, long-suffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. 24: And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. 25: If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.

Mt. 12:33 and Mt.7:17 "a tree is known by its fruit". The fruit of the Spirit shows the life of Christ.

To be filled with the Spirit means that someone will act spiritual that they are under the control of the Spirit and the fruit of his presence will show.

To say that speaking in tongues or baptism is evidence or that it is necessary for salvation mocks God and His written word concerning the doctrinal truth of salvation. It is also saying that every born again Christian that has repented and believed on the Lord Jesus Christ as there Lord and Saviour for 100's of years by faith in Him is lost. This is a lie, strait from the pit of hell. Repent and may God have mercy on your soul!

Christ First Forum

IS TONGUES AND BAPTISM NECESSARY FOR SALVATION?

IS TONGUES AND BAPTISM NECESSARY FOR SALVATION?

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