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Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus work

I know as Christians every thing should be bible Related, but you may post discussions on bible related subject or questions about scriptures or just want to share a bible study with us.

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Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus work

Postby Remnant » 09 Jul 2011, 19:11

Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?

Question: "Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works?"

Answer: This is perhaps the most important question in all of Christian theology. This question is the cause of the Reformation, the split between the Protestant churches and Catholic Church. This question is a key difference between biblical Christianity and most of the “Christian” cults. Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus works? Am I saved just by believing in Jesus, or do I have to believe in Jesus and do certain things?

The question of faith alone or faith plus works is made difficult by some hard-to-reconcile Bible passages. Compare Romans 3:28, 5:1 and Galatians 3:24 with James 2:24. Some see a difference between Paul (salvation is by faith alone) and James (salvation is by faith plus works). Paul dogmatically says that justification is by faith alone (Ephesians 2:8-9), while James appears to be saying that justification is by faith plus works. This apparent problem is answered by examining what exactly James is talking about. James is refuting the belief that a person can have faith without producing any good works (James 2:17-18). James is emphasizing the point that genuine faith in Christ will produce a changed life and good works (James 2:20-26). James is not saying that justification is by faith plus works, but rather that a person who is truly justified by faith will have good works in his/her life. If a person claims to be a believer, but has no good works in his/her life, then he/she likely does not have genuine faith in Christ (James 2:14, 17, 20, 26).

Paul says the same thing in his writings. The good fruit believers should have in their lives is listed in Galatians 5:22-23. Immediately after telling us that we are saved by faith, not works (Ephesians 2:8-9), Paul informs us that we were created to do good works (Ephesians 2:10). Paul expects just as much of a changed life as James does: “Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come” (2 Corinthians 5:17). James and Paul do not disagree in their teaching regarding salvation. They approach the same subject from different perspectives. Paul simply emphasized that justification is by faith alone while James put emphasis on the fact that genuine faith in Christ produces good works.

http://www.gotquestions.org/salvation-faith-alone.html
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Re: Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus work

Postby Jon-Marc » 23 Jul 2011, 22:35

I think that Eph. 2:8,9 says it all. "For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God: Not work, lest any man should boast." We are saved by the grace of God through faith that He gives us. Even our faith doesn't come from us. It also makes it very plain that we are NOT saved by works to avoid boasting. Jesus did ALL that was necessary on the cross.
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Re: Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus work

Postby Jeani » 23 Jul 2011, 22:42

:thup :thup Jon Marc....

Eph. 2:8-9 sums up the WHOLE gospel to me...

Those who choose 'works' plus salvation, I have to wonder if they are 'truly' saved....

They are not accepting the 'free gift' of salvation when you have to add some kind of works...

Sooo many are going to be 'fooled' when the Rapture happens before the Great Tribulation...

I'm afraid they are going to be left...

God Bless...
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Re: Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus work

Postby Jon-Marc » 24 Jul 2011, 23:29

Since I don't believe the tribulation is for believers but for unbelievers, I believe believers will be removed from the earth before the tribulation begins. There are people (supposedly Christians) who believe we will go through half of the tribulation, all of it, or they believe there is no removal of believers (Rapture). One reason many believe we will go through the tribulation (or at least half of it) is because there WILL be Christians here during the tribulation who will be persecuted and murdered for their beliefs. The thing is that they will be those who are saved during the tribulation when many realize that what they had heard about Christ's return is true after all when millions of people (including babies and all those who are mentally capable of being held responsible) suddenly disappear.

Think about it: Babies will disappear from hospitals, from the crib in their home, from their mother's arms as she holds her little darling, and from wherever they are. How many will that be? Can the Rapture be an unnoticed event? I don't think so. The verse that says that Christ will return as a thief in the night refers to His return after the tribulation when He removes all the UNbelievers and begins His reign on earth with the believers.

While belief in the Rapture is not necessary for salvation, it is something that will happen--just when is something people want to debate (argue about actually). I don't like arguing and will avoid it if possible. I have read the entire Bible through MANY times and studied much of it, and I have a fair knowledge of what is true and what isn't, but I will not get into an argument with anyone about it. I will state what I am sure is the truth, and people can either accept it or deny it.

There is also confusion about the Rapture and Christ's second coming TO the earth. Many seem to put the two separate events as one event and happening at the same time--generally AFTER the tribulation. Actually, Jesus does NOT set foot on the earth at the time of the Rapture and does when He returns to set up His 1,000 reign on earth after the tribulation. That time has nothing whatsoever to do with the Rapture. There are 7 years between the Rapture and the start of His 1,000 year reign. ghtg
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Re: Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus work

Postby Remnant » 25 Jul 2011, 04:30

There is also confusion about the Rapture and Christ's second coming TO the earth. Many seem to put the two separate events as one event and happening at the same time--generally AFTER the tribulation. Actually, Jesus does NOT set foot on the earth at the time of the Rapture and does when He returns to set up His 1,000 reign on earth after the tribulation. That time has nothing whatsoever to do with the Rapture. There are 7 years between the Rapture and the start of His 1,000 year reign.


Amen! As far as babies being taken up in the rapture, not absolutely sure. First off, regardless of age they have to be in Christ Jesus. Meaning they have to already be saved. 1Thessalonians 4:16,17 says the dead in Christ shall rise first. Then those who remain will meet Him in the air. I know God is merciful and what ever He decides concerning little babies will be just. The children that survive the Tribulation will procreate the earth during the 1000 years.
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Re: Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus work

Postby Jon-Marc » 25 Jul 2011, 15:10

"Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." So, since babies can't call upon the Lord, does that mean they go to hell if they die? A just and loving God would not allow that to happen and would make allowances for those who are unable in any way to call upon the Lord due to lack of ability to understand or to call on Him verbally or even in their mind.
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Re: Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus work

Postby Remnant » 25 Jul 2011, 15:24

Jon-Marc wrote:"Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved." So, since babies can't call upon the Lord, does that mean they go to hell if they die? A just and loving God would not allow that to happen and would make allowances for those who are unable in any way to call upon the Lord due to lack of ability to understand or to call on Him verbally or even in their mind.


Frequently lost in the discussion regarding the age of accountability is the fact that children, no matter how young, are not “innocent” in the sense of being sinless. The Bible tells us that even if an infant or child has not committed personal sin, all people, including infants and children, are guilty before God because of inherited and imputed sin. Inherited sin is that which is passed on from our parents. In Psalm 51:5, David wrote, “Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother conceived me.” David recognized that even at conception, he was a sinner. The very sad fact that infants sometimes die demonstrates that even infants are impacted by Adam’s sin, since physical and spiritual death were the results of Adam's original sin.

Each person, infant or adult, stands guilty before God; each person has offended the holiness of God. The only way God can be just and at the same time declare a person righteous is for that person to have received forgiveness by faith in Christ. Christ is the only way. John 14:6 records what Jesus said: “I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father, except through Me.” Also, Peter states in Acts 4:12, “Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved.” Salvation is an individual choice.

What about babies and young children who never reach the ability to make this individual choice? The age of accountability is a concept that teaches those who die before reaching the age of accountability are automatically saved, by God’s grace and mercy. The age of accountability is a belief that God saves all those who die before reaching the ability to make a decision for or against Christ. Thirteen is the most common number given for the age of accountability, based on the Jewish custom that a child becomes an adult at the age of 13. However, the Bible gives no direct support to the age of 13 always being the age of accountability. It likely varies from child to child. A child has passed the age of accountability once he or she is capable of making a faith decision for or against Christ.

With the above in mind, also consider this: Christ's death is presented as sufficient for all of mankind. First John 2:2 says Jesus is “the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.” This verse is clear that Jesus' death was sufficient for all sins, not just the sins of those who specifically have come to Him in faith. The fact that Christ's death was sufficient for all sin would allow the possibility of God’s applying that payment to those who were never capable of believing.

The one passage that seems to identify with this topic more than any other is 2 Samuel 12:21-23. The context of these verses is that King David committed adultery with Bathsheba, with a resulting pregnancy. The prophet Nathan was sent by the Lord to inform David that because of his sin, the Lord would take the child in death. David responded to this by grieving, mourning, and praying for the child. But once the child was taken, David's mourning ended. David's servants were surprised to hear this. They said to King David, “What is this thing that you have done? While the child was alive, you fasted and wept; but when the child died, you arose and ate food.” David's response was, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept; for I said, ‘Who knows, the LORD may be gracious to me, that the child may live.’ But now he has died; why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me.” David's response indicates that those who cannot believe are safe in the Lord. David said that he could go to the child, but that he could not bring the child back to him. Also, and just as important, David seemed to be comforted over this. In other words, David seemed to be saying that he would see the child (in heaven), though he could not bring him back.

Although it is possible that God applies Christ's payment for sin to those who cannot believe, the Bible does not specifically say that He does this. Therefore, this is a subject about which we should not be adamant or dogmatic. God’s applying Christ’s death to those who cannot believe would seem consistent with His love and mercy. It is our position that God applies Christ's payment for sin to young children and those who are mentally handicapped, since they were not mentally capable of understanding their sinful state and their need for the Savior, but again we cannot be dogmatic. Of this we are certain: God is loving, holy, merciful, just, and gracious. Whatever He does is always right and good.


http://www.gotquestions.org/age-of-accountability.html
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Re: Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus work

Postby Jeani » 26 Jul 2011, 17:03

Frank,

I, also, agree with all you said about the 'imputed sin' within everyone,but I, also, believe in the 'free will'...

A baby or child are not old enough to make such a conscientious decision as accepting the Lord; however, if they did, some of them would probably choose the Lord...

I just believe in God's mercy and love as you posted...and the fact that David said he was going to see his child in heaven...

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Re: Is salvation by faith alone, or by faith plus work

Postby Carmela » 26 Jul 2011, 19:18

I read one opinion that the unborn babies and children under the age of understanding of SAVED parents would go in the rapture but not the ones from unsaved parents. Adults and children who accept Christ during the Tribulation period will begin the Millennial Kingdom. At least this is my understanding :)
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