Christ First Forum

by **AHeartofJoye** » 16 Nov 2010, 07:49

Christ's Return

Matthew 24:36 KJV - But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.

24:42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

24:43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.

24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

:batr

Do you believe that Jesus Christ will return in our lifetime?

by **Carmela** » 16 Nov 2010, 14:56

I believe that Jesus Christ will return for His Bride at any moment and that He will return to the earth as King of Kings and Lord of Lords not too many years from now.

by **Jay dub** » 16 Nov 2010, 23:34

Hi Carmela

I hope you don't mind me asking, because posting my beliefs on the rapture has made me feel un-welcome

You said that you believe Christ could come at anytime, how could that be?? even for a pretrib believer

If the Church was raptured today, that would mean in 7 years we would see the return of Christ, Right? If I am right , then for there to be a rapture doesn't there have to be a temple?
In the middle of the seven years he stops the sacrifice. Wouldn't that mean that for 3 1/2 years they are sacrificing before the antichrist puts an end to it.

My question to you is, Can a pretrib believer, believe the rapture can happen before the temple is built. Let me say it in a different way. If the sacrifice stops in the middle of the 7 years, how can the church be raptured before the temple is built?

I hope you understand my question

by **Remnant** » 17 Nov 2010, 09:57

Jay, You said:

My question to you is, Can a pretrib believer, believe the rapture can happen before the temple is built. Let me say it in a different way. If the sacrifice stops in the middle of the 7 years, how can the church be raptured before the temple is built?

Yes to the first part of this question!

To the second part of your question, it is more of your answer then a question. Determining whether the sacrifices take place at all is another matter and when they take place.

First off, Will the temple be built or has the temple already been built. Their are two train of thoughts on this. I personally believe according to scripture that Jesus is Temple and He raised it up in three days.

Consider Hebrews 9:8–14
The Holy Spirit indicating this, that the way into the Holiest of All was not yet made manifest while the first tabernacle was still standing. 9 It was symbolic for the present time in which both gifts and sacrifices are offered which cannot make him who performed the service perfect in regard to the conscience— 10 concerned only with foods and drinks, various washings, and fleshly ordinances imposed until the time of reformation.
11 But Christ came as High Priest of the good things to come, with the greater and more perfect tabernacle not made with hands, that is, not of this creation. 12 Not with the blood of goats and calves, but with His own blood He entered the Most Holy Place once for all, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of bulls and goats and the ashes of a heifer, sprinkling the unclean, sanctifies for the purifying of the flesh, 14 how much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without spot to God, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

Secondly, Regardless of who is right on this, does not change the fact that the rapture will occur before the great tribulation and there is overwhelming evidence of this.

Carmela, Can give her thoughts on this! I just wanted to share mine and all are welcome to do the same.

There is a lot of information on this subject on this forum. Just do a word search!

by **Carmela** » 17 Nov 2010, 19:25

I can't see where the rapture has any bearing on the 3rd Temple, Jay. That temple has nothing to do with the church. I believe that the rapture happens before the antichrist is revealed.

by **Jay dub** » 17 Nov 2010, 23:21

Carmela, If someone believes in a third temple being built and believes the AntiChrist will put an end to the sacrifice after 31/2 years that would mean the temple has to be built before the rapture

If you believe in a pretribulation rapture ,then 7 years after the rapture the Lord returns. It would mean the temple has to be there first after 3 1/2 years antiChrist stops the sacrifice that leaves another three and a half years until the Lord returns
At the time of the rapture you believe the clock starts ticking for the final 7 years well then, if you believe in a third temple, it would have to be built before the rapture.

I said this only because you said the Lord could come at any time

I personal don't understand the things said about the temple in Revelation. I don't understand how it could be called the temple of God and be sacrificing for sin

Frank if you believe the temple is Jesus. What is then meant by the AntiChrist putting an end to the sacrifice?

by **Remnant** » 18 Nov 2010, 07:00

Jay, You said:

Frank if you believe the temple is Jesus. What is then meant by the AntiChrist putting an end to the sacrifice?

Frank, Did you read the scripture that I posted?
Do you understand and know that Jesus did away with sacrifices when he split curtain of the holy of holies?

by **Carmela** » 18 Nov 2010, 10:42

I don't necessarily see the Trib beginning immediately after the rapture of the church. There could very easily be a span of time between the rapture and the beginning of the Trib period. From what I understand, everything is ready to go for the building of the 3rd temple and they could have it done in a year's time. The Jews will once again begin their sacrifices, but before God, there is still just one accepted sacrifice for sin. . .Jesus Christ.

by **Remnant** » 18 Nov 2010, 13:23

I will say this; On the basis of Matthew 24:15 with supporting Scriptures from Daniel, 2 Thessalonians 2, and Revelation 13, it may be concluded that Scriptures anticipate a future temple with a sacrificial system which will be under way at the time “the prince that shall come” exercises his authority, desecrates the temple, and establishes himself as the object of worship.

If such a temple is to be built, it is reasonable to assume that it will be built in Jerusalem as no other site would be acceptable for a temple built in fulfillment of the Mosaic system. One of the remarkable features of the recent history of Israel is that the stage is set precisely for such a move, and if so, the end of the age may be very near.

Jay We have beat this dead horse for way to long and too many times.

I have seen and been a part of too many debates and have looked at all sides of the issues and still come up with the same conclusion. The rapture and the second coming are two different events and occurrence. Before we go any further please take note this forum is full of information on why the rapture will occur before the tribulation. There is no concrete evidence that says otherwise. Please look at these at your leisure!

is-the-pre-trib-rapture-a-satanic-deception-t3683.html

defending-the-pre-trib-rapture-t3527.html

jesus-is-coming-soon-t2822.html

what-is-the-pretribulation-rapture-t2590.html

rapture-videos-got-to-see-t3508.html

Also be reminded to read guidlines for posting!

13. You may Discuss, but do not promote Mid or Post Tribulation, Prewrath, Preterism, or Replacement theology. This board is traditional Pre-Tribulation Rapture, and Pre-Millennial Dispensational in our position of End Times Prophecy. We also believe in a literal 7 year Tribulation period, after the instantaneous Rapture of all regenerated believers in unison, during which God finishes His discipline of Israel and finalizes His judgments on the unbelieving world. Our Lord Jesus Christ told us that we won't know the day or hour of His return and to always be ready keeping watch.

These rules have been set up to keep threads and debates from spiraling out of control, not as a rebuke or reproof, but for a better understanding of the operation and format of this forum.

There are 1000 of topics on this form and I am just curious as to why you choose this one?

If you would like to discuss this in depth then please feel free to email me or pm me.
post20209.html#p20209

We are glad that you are here and post, but I find you have a bit of a preoccupation and promotion of either prewrath or midtrib. I have stated our position.

Their is a lot of topics, over 6,000 and plenty of information to glean truth from. I encourage you to consider reading and participating in some of the other threads and topics. We would love to get to know you better. Thank's

by **Jay dub** » 27 Nov 2010, 23:43

Let me first say that my questions were based on this statement

by Carmela » 16 Nov 2010, 15:56
I believe that Jesus Christ will return for His Bride at any moment and that He will return to the earth as King of Kings and Lord of Lords not too many years from now.

Not because I was arguing The rapture, but I did not understand, how someone who believed in the rapture, could believe the rapture could happen at anytime, when they believed the temple had to be built. Because it is my understanding, that those who believe in a pretrib rapture, believe it to be the start of the final seventh week

I then said I dont understand how this temple could be called the temple of God, if they start the sacrifices again

I personal don't understand the things said about the temple in Revelation. I don't understand how it could be called the temple of God and be sacrificing for sin

You said that you believed the temple was Jesus. My question was then reffering to the last days and the sacrifices being stopped after 31/2 years

Frank if you believe the temple is Jesus. What is then meant by the AntiChrist putting an end to the sacrifice?

Remnant wrote:Jay, You said:
Frank if you believe the temple is Jesus. What is then meant by the AntiChrist putting an end to the sacrifice?

Jay, Did you read the scripture that I posted?
Do you understand and know that Jesus did away with sacrifices when he split curtain of the holy of holies?

I find it frustrating that you speak to me as one anoyed, not here only but in most of my posts
then in your next post you seem to understand what I am saying

I will say this; On the basis of Matthew 24:15 with supporting Scriptures from Daniel, 2 Thessalonians 2, and Revelation 13, it may be concluded that Scriptures anticipate a future temple with a sacrificial system which will be under way at the time “the prince that shall come” exercises his authority, desecrates the temple, and establishes himself as the object of worship.
If such a temple is to be built, it is reasonable to assume that it will be built in Jerusalem as no other site would be acceptable for a temple built in fulfillment of the Mosaic system. One of the remarkable features of the recent history of Israel is that the stage is set precisely for such a move, and if so, the end of the age may be very near.

13. You may Discuss, but do not promote Mid or Post Tribulation, Prewrath, Preterism, or Replacement theology. This board is traditional Pre-Tribulation Rapture, and Pre-Millennial Dispensational in our position of End Times Prophecy. We also believe in a literal 7 year Tribulation period, after the instantaneous Rapture of all regenerated believers in unison, during which God finishes His discipline of Israel and finalizes His judgments on the unbelieving world. Our Lord Jesus Christ told us that we won't know the day or hour of His return and to always be ready keeping watch

I have not broken your rule 13. I have only discussed and not promoted my beliefs. You have posted these links before and I posted twice without any responce, so out of respect for your rule 13 I stoped,after two posts, Also in this thread I did not even mention my beliefs, I only asked question about timing and the temple

by **Remnant** » 28 Nov 2010, 07:24

Jay, You said:

I have not broken your rule 13. I have only discussed and not promoted my beliefs. You have posted these links before and I posted twice without any responce, so out of respect for your rule 13 I stoped,after two posts, Also in this thread I did not even mention my beliefs, I only asked question about timing and the temple

With all due respect, I have had this conversation with you and I know where you are coming from. I would love to see you post and be a part of this forum, but it always comes back to disagreeing with the pretribulation and the timing of the rapture of the church. We have made our position clear and where we stand on this issue. This is a pretribulation forum and a forum that believes in that doctrine.

What is important, is that we believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and we adhere to the same doctrine concerning salvation by Grace in and through Him and by Him alone.

If you have anything further to say on this subject, please feel free to email me or PM me.

Thanks!

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